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#881 [url]

Jan 6 17 9:50 PM

There are plenty of cases of matches with amateur restrictions counting as full internationals. Usually the countries involved had an amateur domestic league, so only the foreign-based pros were excluded.

Another example of an "overlooked" restriction is when an international is played on a similar date to a major cup final, so players from only one club are excluded.

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#882 [url]

Jan 7 17 10:29 AM

They are restrictions. Regarding the first one you mention, I will say it's OK to me if a country will field only domestic based players for its NT in official A-internationals. If an international is arranged on a similar date than whatever elese will be played (and the respective FA wants to label this match as A-international), one can talk about clumsy arranging.

Another "overlooked" restriction is if one or even more clubs won't release its players.

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#883 [url]

Jan 8 17 11:20 PM

Today 16 Slovaks made their full A-international debut against Uganda (1-3)! This must be a world record.

Michal Šulla   out.gif 46' 

1F.K. Senica, Senica
in.gif 46' Adam Jakubech   1F.C. Spartak, Trnava
Juraj Kotula   out.gif 46' 1Š.K. Slovan, Bratislava
in.gif 46' Martin Šulek   1F.K. A.S., Trenčín
Denis Vavro   1M.Š.K. Žilina, Žilina
Martin Králik   1M.Š.K. Žilina, Žilina
Jakub Holúbek   4M.Š.K. Žilina, Žilina
Martin Bukata   out.gif 70' 1G.K.S. Piast, Gliwice
in.gif 70' Miroslav Káčer   1M.Š.K. Žilina, Žilina
Roman Gergel   out.gif 70' 1Bruk-Bet Termalica Nieciecza K.S., Nieciecza
in.gif 70' Tomáš Huk   1F.C. D.A.C. 1904, Dunajská Streda
Michal Škvarka   1M.Š.K. Žilina, Žilina
Filip Oršula   out.gif 85' 1Š.K. Slovan, Bratislava
in.gif 85' Pavol Šafranko   1F.O. Ž.P. Šport Podbrezová, Podbrezová
Filip Hlohovsky  Captain  1M.Š.K. Žilina, Žilina
Tomáš Malec   out.gif 70' 1Lillestrøm S.K., Lillestrøm
in.gif 70' David Guba   1Bruk-Bet Termalica Nieciecza K.S., Nieciecza

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#886 [url]

Jan 9 17 12:16 PM

nfm24 wrote:
Surely there were cases of 17 debutants in the first match of a new country?

The Slovak case is unique as this team did not played its first match ever (or after a very long spell).

San Marino even 18, but that match was played against Canada B on 12-03-1986, so not really a full A-international match.

Claudio Maiani   out.gif 46' 

1A.C. Lanerossi Vicenza, Vicenza
in.gif 46' Pierluigi Benedettini   1A.C. San Marino, Serravalle
Bruno Muccioli   1A.C. Cattolica Calcio, Cattolica
Dante Maiani  Captain  out.gif 70' 1S.P. Cosmos, Serravalle
in.gif 70' Maurizio Reggini   1S.P. Cosmos, Serravalle
Marco Montironi   1A.C. Città di Castello, Città di Castello
Italo Pedini   out.gif 60' 1A.C. San Marino, Serravalle
in.gif 60' Massimo Zanotti   1A.C. Tropical Ospedaletto, Coriano
Giuseppe Canini   1A.C. Tropical Ospedaletto, Coriano
Giampaolo Mazza   out.gif 85' 1A.C. San Marino, Serravalle
in.gif 85' Tiziano Giacobbi   1U.S. Sanvitese, San Vito al Tagliamento
Guerrino Albani   1S.P. Cosmos, Serravalle
Fabio Gasperoni   out.gif 80' 1S.C. Faetano, Faetano
in.gif 80' Claudio Peverani   1A.C. Bellaria, Bellaria Igea Marina
Claudio Venerucci   out.gif 46' 1A.C. Tropical Ospedaletto, Coriano
in.gif 46' Valdes Pasolini   1S.S. Juvenes, Serravalle
Marco Macina   out.gif 70' 1Milan A.C., Milano
in.gif 70' Giancarlo Bacciocchi   1A.C. Tropical Ospedaletto, Coriano

Moldova fielded 17 debutants in its first match on 02-07-1991 against Georgia.

Serghei Kvasnikov  

1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Serghei Secu   out.gif 60' 1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
in.gif 60' Ion Testemiţanu   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Alexandru Guzun   1F.C. Tighina-Apoel, Bender
Sergiu Sârbu   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Emil Caras   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Serghei Parhomenco   out.gif 46' 1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
in.gif 46' Gheorghe Harea   1F.C. Tighina-Apoel, Bender
Petru Sârbu   out.gif 77' 1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
in.gif 77' Radu Rebeja   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Valeriu Căpăţână   out.gif 46' 1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
in.gif 46' Serghei Cleşcenco   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Serghei Nani   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Alexandru Spiridon   out.gif 46' 1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
in.gif 46' Igor Ovcearenco   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
Veaceslav Proţenco   out.gif 46' 1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău
in.gif 46' Serghei Chirilov   1S.C. Zimbru, Chişinău

Montenegro fielded 17 debutants in its first match against Hungary on 24-03-2007.

Vukašin Poleksić   88' yellowcard.gif

1F.C. Tatabánya Vértes Center, Tatabánya
Savo Pavićević   19' yellowcard.gifout.gif 90' 1F.K. Hajduk Rodić M.B., Kula
in.gif 90' Risto Lakić   1F.K. Budućnost, Podgorica
Jovan Tanasijević   out.gif 85' 1F.C. Dinamo, Moscow
in.gif 85' Vlado Jeknić   1S.V. Wacker, Burghausen
Milan Jovanović   1F.C. Unirea Valahorum, Urziceni
Simon Vukčević   1F.C. Saturn, Ramenskoye
Mirko Raičević   out.gif 57' 1F.K. Budućnost, Podgorica
in.gif 57' Janko Tumbasević   1F.K. Zeta, Golubovci
Branko Bošković   1S.K. Rapid, Wien
Vladimir Božović   out.gif 46' 1O.F.K. Beograd, Beograd
in.gif 46' Milan Purović   68' yellowcard.gif1F.K. Crvena Zvezda, Beograd
Igor Burzanović   71' yellowcard.gifout.gif 86' 1F.K. Crvena Zvezda, Beograd
in.gif 86' Vladimir Vujović   1Al-Wehda Club, Mecca
Mirko Vučinić  Captain  out.gif 83' 1A.S. Roma S.p.A., Roma
in.gif 83' Stevan Jovetić   1F.K. Partizan, Beograd
Radoslav Batak   90+1' yellowcard.gif1Ankaraspor, Ankara

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#887 [url]

Jan 9 17 10:09 PM

There must be cases where a B-team or youth team was sent to fulfil a fixture, or when a home-based team was used.

Andorra had 16 debutants in 1996. I think there were no "new" countries starting with a friendly during the period when unlimited subs were permitted. So to beat 17 debuts it would need to be a new country or a hiatus after a war for example, probably outside of FIFA regulations.

I wouldn't personally considered cases like Gibraltar's first match after joining UEFA, because the players were not true debutants having played already in the pre-UEFA days.

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#888 [url]

Jan 10 17 10:19 AM

nfm24 wrote:

I wouldn't personally considered cases like Gibraltar's first match after joining UEFA, because the players were not true debutants having played already in the pre-UEFA days.

I wonder why some "new" countries take their first match after joining FIFA as a starting point. Did a country like Gibraltar initially regard its first match after joining FIFA as its first official -international match or did they previously with a match which was played before?

Meanwhile the international matches various European NT's play this week suffers heavily from inflation. It appears like Croatian FA won't regard the matches they will play this week in China as official A as one can read here.

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#891 [url]

Jan 10 17 2:34 PM

Gibraltar has a long history of playing visiting clubs, military selections and occasionally even FA XI, but only a short history of playing quasi-internationals in e.g. the Island Games.
I don't know when they would say the "first" international was.

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#892 [url]

Jan 10 17 5:48 PM

Besides, I was under the impression that it was more a media thing to label something as their 'first-ever international [match/goal/yellow card/untied shoelace]'. It makes you appreciate those rare moments when a commentator/pundit qualifies the statement with 'FIFA/UEFA-recognised'.

I suppose for convenience's sake the recognised mark is an easy starting point, but I'd assume Gibraltar (and to a lesser extent Kosovo) wouldn't want to throw all their pre-UEFA history away so easily. Exactly what they'd count is a different question.

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#894 [url]

Jan 10 17 9:51 PM

I don't like what's happening this month at all.

Uganda 3-1 Slovakia - What do Slovakia gain from counting this as an A match? They'll lose ranking points, while Uganda's will be artificially inflated.

Meanwhile, Finland decided not to include their match against Morocco yesterday as an A match, and then won it, against an opponent ranked about 35 places higher.

I would seriously consider removing the right of the FAs to determine whether a match is an A match or not after the rubbish we have seen this month, What will happen next? A few mental institute patients and some otters can play for Norway and just because they say "This is an A match", FIFA has to accept?

Boo! Down with all of this nonsense.

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#896 [url]

Jan 11 17 10:24 AM

Nevertheless, the rubbish what's happening this month is not something we have only seen the past few years. Here are some examples from before WW2.

Sweden's line up for the 20-07-1926 Latvia 4-1 Sweden match.

Knut Norrby  

1Gefle I.F., Gävle
Henry Åström   1Gefle I.F., Gävle
Ingvar Persson   1Sandvikens A.I.K., Sandviken
Hugo Eliasson   1Sandvikens I.F., Sandviken
Thure Svensson  Captain  1Gefle I.F., Gävle
Einar Snitt   1Sandvikens I.F., Sandviken
Ernst Lööf   2Sandvikens A.I.K., Sandviken
John Sand   1Gefle I.F., Gävle
John Sundberg   1Sandvikens A.I.K., Sandviken
Axel Hedström   1Brynäs I.F., Gävle
Gösta Pettersson   1Gefle I.F., Gävle

Sweden's line up for the 11-06-1939 Sweden 7-0 Lithuania match.

Erik Andersson  

1Landskrona B.o.I.S., Landskrona
Erik Eriksson   1I.K. Brage, Borlänge
Erik Lundin   1Degerfors I.F., Degerfors
Roland Lindberg   1Gårda B.K., Göteborg
Sven Jacobsson  Captain  5G.A.I.S., Göteborg
Göte Ellström   1Örgryte I.S., Göteborg
Stig Nyström   1I.K. Brage, Borlänge
Curt Hjelm   2Sleipner I.K., Norrköping
Knut Johansson   1I.F. Elfsborg, Borås
Willis Karlsson   1Billingsfors I.K., Billingsfors
Ragnar Larsson   1I.F.K. Eskilstuna, Eskilstuna

And Germany'sline up for the 27-08-1939 Slovakia 2-0 Germany match.

Willy Jürissen  

6S.C. Rot-Weiß, Oberhausen
Franz Immig   2Karlsruher F.V., Karlsruhe
Otto Marischka   1S.K. Admira, Wien
Ernst Sabeditsch   1F.C. Vienna, Wien
Josef Pekarek   1S.C. Wacker, Wien
Max Merkel   1Wiener S.C., Wien
Franz Hofer   1S.K. Rapid, Wien
Ernst Reitermaier   1S.C. Wacker, Wien
Franz Binder  Captain  2S.K. Rapid, Wien
Matthias Kaburek   1S.K. Rapid, Wien
Ludwig Gärtner   1S.C. Olympia, Lorsch

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#897 [url]

Jan 11 17 12:33 PM

Sure, in the past there are examples - but in the present, it seems it is now a regular occurrence. Also, in the past, there may been good reasons. It wouldn't have been as easy for players to travel, or for scouts to travel to watch players. Sometimes, testing players out in a match would have been the best option. There weren't as many international matches played in those days either, so maybe they just counted more of the dubious cases.

For Slovakia this time - I don't think sending these new players to the UAE and making them play an international match was the best thing to do - why couldn't they just label it as Slovakia 'B' (which is what it was)? Or couldn't they test these players out in Slovakia against a club team? Slovenia did the sensible thing - they labelled their team a B team, because that's what it was. If other teams did the same, there would be no confusion.

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#898 [url]

Jan 11 17 1:03 PM

It's ridiculous and inconsistent at the same time!
Currently playing in UAE/China are Sweden XI (official for Sweden but not FIFA), Slovakia B (official for Slovakia? Not for FIFA), Finland (official for Finland but not FIFA), Slovenia B (match vs SA official for FIFA. Match vs Finland is not), Iceland (official for KSI/FIFA), Croatia League XI (official for Croatia? and FIFA). - football internationals

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#899 [url]

Jan 11 17 1:12 PM

Even in the past it regularly happened teams played with understrengthened teams, mostly because of double fixtures on the very same day. Until the 1950s Sweden regularly played against Norway and Finland simultaneously, but also Germany, Poland, Austria and Hungary had some double fixtures.The pattern was almost the same: one of both matches against serious opposition and one against weak opposition. But even against weak opposition a strong nation risked embarrashing results as Germany's 1939 against Luxembourg and Slovakia (the latter not on a double fixture's day).

To me it's OK testing new players in A-matches, but I aso wonder what's the use of testing players in a team with (almost) new players. If I was a coach I also would like to know who new players co-operate with at least some established players as Holland i.e. did against Luxembourg on several occasions (in matches KNVB regard as B even though these matches obviously were used as preparation for the A-team. If it is urgent to test many players because a NT has to be renovated, testing many players is OK, but prefarably with some established players who will remain.

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#900 [url]

Jan 11 17 1:20 PM

SDb wrote:
It's ridiculous and inconsistent at the same time!
Currently playing in UAE/China are Sweden XI (official for Sweden but not FIFA), Slovakia B (official for Slovakia? Not for FIFA), Finland (official for Finland but not FIFA), Slovenia B (match vs SA official for FIFA. Match vs Finland is not), Iceland (official for KSI/FIFA), Croatia League XI (official for Croatia? and FIFA).

What FIFA is doing regarding match status is not important to me concerning statistics. Unfortunately it is important in order to get FIFA points with is important for allocating intopots at drawings.

Regarding the match status by various national FA's? It appears to me that Slovakia and Croatia are not counting the matches they are playing this week for their records as both Slovak and Croat FA website say the NT's next match will be in March. But both FA's are considering the team as A.....

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