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Feb 28 17 8:40 PM

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I'm aware of the 1930 South American Basketball Championship that is the first officially recognized international basketball tournament, but does anyone know if there are any other competitions in or before the era besides the Eurobasket and Olympics? I know that the Baltic countries were playing each other in the 1920s, but I can't find any information on those games. I also tried to ask this question on the interbasket forums but my account got banned for no apparent reason. I'll try quora later but it's down right now.
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#3 [url]

Mar 14 17 1:13 AM

Would probably require googling in Chinese or Japanese, and/or going to offline newspapers or paysites.

E.g. "newspaperarchive.com" has the North China Herald (Shanghai), and some English Hong Kong newspapers are online at the HK library website.

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#4 [url]

nfm24 wrote:
Would probably require googling in Chinese or Japanese, and/or going to offline newspapers or paysites.

E.g. "newspaperarchive.com" has the North China Herald (Shanghai), and some English Hong Kong newspapers are online at the HK library website.

Interesting, I wonder what the chances are of finding basketball statistics on those games there are though. I also found the central american and caribbean games which go back to 1926. it's really amazing how little data FIBA provides on some of these old tournaments in their archives (if any data at all).

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#5 [url]

abramjones wrote:
it's really amazing how little data FIBA provides on some of these old tournaments in their archives (if any data at all).

Because these old tournaments were not managed by FIBA. If they had been organized by them, official documents or registers or press kits would have been conserved somewhere in the FIBA offices. As such tournaments were organized by other organizations, researches should be adressed towards the governing bodies who actually administered the competitions - perhaps they still conserve some register in their archives, even if it's not easy.

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#6 [url]

abramjones wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what the chances are of finding basketball statistics on those games there are though.

I would say the chances are pretty good.  After all, they had to write about something in those newspapers. 


North-China Herald (Shanghai), Sat 3 Sep 1927
Details of each sport up to and including Thur:
Baseball
On Sat: Japan 6-0 China [lineups given]
On Sun: Japan 3-1 Philippines
On Mon: China 4-3 Philippines
On Tue: Japan 4-0 China
On Wed: Japan 2-0 Philippines
On Thu: China (made up of Hawaiian Chinese) 3-1 Philippines
Basketball
On Sat: China 39-19 Japan [very detailed stats and lineups given]
On Sun: Philippines 30-27 Japan
On Mon: Philippines 42-24 China
On Tue: China 47-23 Japan
On Wed: Philippines 50-28 Japan
On Thu: Philippines 28-27 China
[this means that the "Oriental Championship" was won by Japan, which had won baseball, all-round, and track&field, while China has won football and probably tennis and volleyball. This means a tie at three, but the rule in case of a tie is that the nation which wins the track and field is entitled to the Far Eastern Championship]
Volleyball:
China 21-2 21-3 Japan
Sun: Philippines 21-17 21-4 Japan
Mon: China 21-12 21-19 Philippines
Tue: China 21-3 21-9 Japan
"Girls volleyball" (exhibition):
Sun: Japan 21-12 21-0 China
Tue: Japan 21-5 21-4 China
Ping Pong
Tue: Koda (Japan) won, and Japan won the team title 6-1 vs China.
Tennis
China vs Philippines:
Lum Pao-Hwa 6-0 6-3 6-1 Fuentebella
Khoo Hooi-Hye 6-2-6-0 6-2 Engayo
Lum & Khoo 9-7 6-4 6-2 Engayo & Fuentebella
China vs Japan
Khoo Hooi-Hye 6-3 10-8 6-4 Aizawa
Lum Pao-Hwa 6-1 7-9 4-6 6-3 6-3 Sato
Khoo & Lum 5-7 4-6 6-1 8-6 Matsuura & Inoue (abandoned at 2 sets each due to darkness)
Khoo & Lum 8-6 7-5 3-6 1-3 Matsuura & Inoue (abandoned during 4th set due to darkness)
Swimming finals
50m Freestyle (27.3 sec)
1. M.Ulka (Philippines)
2. A.Usman (P)
3. M.Muramatsu (Japan)
4. T.Sugino (J)
100m Freestyle 1m 5.9s
1.M.Jakarta (P), 2.M.Ulka (P), 3.K.Moda (J), 4.A.Usman (P)
100m Backstroke (1m 18.9s)
1. O.Ueda (J)
2. T.Agpoon (P)
3. K.Saruhashi (J)
4. G.Lagwatan (P)
100m Breaststroke 2m 52.8s
1.T.Ildefonso (P), 2.A.Arasad (P), 3.N.Mendoza, 4.M.Harulano (P)
400m Freestyle 5m 33.8s
1.H.Murakami, 2.R.Awada, 3.H.Kodamo, 4.T.Taburan (P)
1500m Freestyle (22m 17.9s)
1. H.Yoneyama (J), 2. R.Takebayashi (J), 3 S.Yasuda (J), 4 K.Terada (J)
200m Relay 1m 53.1s
1.Philippines, 2.Japan, 3.China
Track & Field
Japan 106.5 pts, Philippines 58.5 pts, China 0 pts
High jump 1.93m
1.S.Toribio, 2=.V.Mugata, K.Kimura, K.Hattori tied 2nd
Running broad jump 7.07 m
1.M.Oda, 2.S.Carino, 3.K.Murakami, 4.C.Nanbre
Hop, step and jump 15.355m
1.M.Oda, 2.K.Oshima, 3.C.Nanby (J), 4.A.Torres (P)
Pole Vault 3.675m
1.K.Nakakawa, 2=K.Kasanara & M.Sujeco, 4. Y.Kusaba
Discus 38.7m
1 Y.Okita, 2 Y.Fujita, 3 G.Rabaya, 4 M.Harada
Shotput 14.3??m
1.A.Ros (P), 2.T.Arima (J), 3.S.Santos (P), 4.G.Robaya (P)
Javelin 56.9m
1.K.Sumiyoshi, 2.S.Almero, 3.A.Roa, 4.D.Dela Pena
100m 11s
1.D.Nepumocanu (P), 2.S.Takagi, 3.R.Yoshioko, 4.A.Gonzaga
110m hurdles 16s
1.G.Robaya (P), 2.Y.Miki (J), 3.Y.Fukui (J), 4.P.Abierra (P)
200m 22.3s
1.A.Gonzaga (P), 2.R.Yoshiako, 3.D.Nepumocene (P), 4.I.Aizawa
200m hurdles 25.1s
1.Y.Fukui, 2.P.Fernandez, 3.Y.Miki, 4.S.Ozawa
400m 50.6s
1.S.Estrada, 2.K.Okamoto, 3.J.Padilla, 4.S.Reyeng
800m 2m 1.3s
1.Y.Kuwata, 2.H.Yashiba, 3.N.Hashimoto, 4.G.Kishi
1500m 4m 14.1s
1.S.Tsuda, 2.K.Tsuahiya, 3.M.Kitazumi, 4.J.Gray
10000m 34m 56.5s
1.M.Michakawa, 2.C.Takemoto, 3.K.Tsuehiya, 4.Y.Magata
Decathlon
1.Oda (5504), Koyama (5132), Porfacion (4913)
Penathlon
1.Hoshina (2542), 2.Fujiguchi (2442), 3.Koa (2390)
800m relay 1m 21.5s
1.Philippines, 2.Japan, 3.China
1600m Relay 3m 28.9s
1.Philippines, 2.Japan, 3.China
There was also an open athletics championship with non oriental competitors.


North-China Herald (Shanghai), Sat 10 Sep 1927
Japan won the Games championship overall.
Japan won 3 of 8 events, China also 3 but in the event of a tie the nation winning track & field is awarded winner.
Japan won T&F, baseball, and the all-around. China won tennis, volleyball, football. Philippines won swimming and basketball.
Volleyball:
China 21-10 17-21 21-11 Philippines
Tennis (under Davis Cup rules, two cross singles and a doubles):
Lum & Khoo 7-5 3-6 8-6 6-4 Matsura & Inoue (after 3 days)
Ladies Tennis (exhibition) : Suwa (J) 6-1 6-0 Chen P-T (C)
Baseball (open/friendlies):
China 4-3 "America", China 2-1 Philippines

_


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#7 [url]

Luca wrote:
abramjones wrote:
it's really amazing how little data FIBA provides on some of these old tournaments in their archives (if any data at all).

Because these old tournaments were not managed by FIBA. If they had been organized by them, official documents or registers or press kits would have been conserved somewhere in the FIBA offices. As such tournaments were organized by other organizations, researches should be adressed towards the governing bodies who actually administered the competitions - perhaps they still conserve some register in their archives, even if it's not easy.
I'm not sure if that's entirely true. Most of these tournaments existed after 1932 which is when FIBA was formed. Even for the competitions that were played before then, as the leading governing body of the sport of basketball i strongly feel it is their responsibility to gather as much historic international data on the sport as possible. they don't even have much simple game data like dates and matches for the CBC championship which was started in the 1980s. when independent researchers who aren't getting paid like todor 66, the roon ba, linguasport, and wikipedia contributors are providing better match details than the main governing body of a sport there's a serious problem with that organization. these organizations that we are subject to have been doing nothing but hurting and holding down the sports that they are supposed to be promoting. and why? greed, ignorance, and laziness. there are a lot of good hard workers in the organizations themselves, i understand that. but there are many corrupt individuals that are ruining it. these are the same types of people who ruined ice hockey, basketball, football, and other sports at the olympics and other tournaments for decades.

Last Edited By: abramjones . Edited 1 time.

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#8 [url]

nfm24 wrote:
abramjones wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what the chances are of finding basketball statistics on those games there are though.

I would say the chances are pretty good.  After all, they had to write about something in those newspapers. 




Amazing! i will add these games to my website. is this the only year on there?

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#9 [url]

I just gave one example to show what can be found. You can get the rough dates of the events from (say) RSSSF pages on the Far East Games, if you want to look for more.

The governing bodies don't generally bother doing a thorough historical gathering of match results because they don't need to. Most people don't know about (say) the Far East Games, so they aren't likely to get many people asking for it.

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#10 [url]

nfm24 wrote:
I just gave one example to show what can be found. You can get the rough dates of the events from (say) RSSSF pages on the Far East Games, if you want to look for more.

The governing bodies don't generally bother doing a thorough historical gathering of match results because they don't need to. Most people don't know about (say) the Far East Games, so they aren't likely to get many people asking for it.
Football results for the tournament are easy to find, it's results for the other sports that aren't. And of course they don't need to, and that's the problem with their mentality. organizations not doing things unless they need to. it's like your co-worker that makes more money than you and does the bare minimum, leaving you with most of the work.

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#11 [url]

abramjones wrote:
Football results for the tournament are easy to find

Only because researchers like us have already found them.

This sort of research is far easier to do nowadays than it was decades ago.

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#12 [url]

nfm24 wrote:
abramjones wrote:
Football results for the tournament are easy to find

Only because researchers like us have already found them.

This sort of research is far easier to do nowadays than it was decades ago.
Indeed it is. I meant to ask you about the baseball game with "Hawaiian Chinese" does it specify if these are Chinese people from Hawaii or Hawaiian that migrated to China? here in the states we refer to people as their ethnicity/nationality first and then their country. example: German American is someone from the USA of German descent.

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#13 [url]

I think it meant that Chinese players based on Hawaii had been brought in for the event. At that time the distinction between Chinese ethnicity and nationality was less clear for sporting purposes.

For example, the ROC football team was generally selected predominantly from Hong Kong with a few Shanghai players, sometimes a couple from Singapore or even Java. They were ethnic Chinese rather than citizens.

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#14 [url]

nfm24 wrote:
I think it meant that Chinese players based on Hawaii had been brought in for the event. At that time the distinction between Chinese ethnicity and nationality was less clear for sporting purposes.

For example, the ROC football team was generally selected predominantly from Hong Kong with a few Shanghai players, sometimes a couple from Singapore or even Java. They were ethnic Chinese rather than citizens.
Sounds like they were pretty lenient like they are in the Baseball World Classic these days (:

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