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#61 [url]

Jan 6 17 5:45 PM

So Mr Mourinho, king of the irrational football whiners, is a voice of reason amongst his peers. The times we live in:

"As a club manager, if the expansion meant more games, less holidays and less pre-season for players, I would say no. But it's important for critics to analyze and understand that expansion doesn't mean more matches."
Maybe he's just keeping up his image of always being contra to the 'popular opinion'...

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#65 [url]

Jan 10 17 6:33 PM

Beat me to it, but yes it has now begun. Get your token rational and irrational reactions here.

What surprised me most was probably how the decision was unanimous amongst a panel of 37 people, there were 5 options on the table and one gets 100% of the vote?

There was voices against this idea (ignoring clubs, and their supporters' 'outrage'), and while I realise it mainly came from England, USA, and Germany, they made some reasonable counter-points about quality and format. I think the expansion definitely has potential and the format was the best compromise for that many teams so I'm not surprised it won, just expected more variation, although I could just be overthinking it and 'unanimous' just meant 'no objections'.

Next step: what the allocation of places will be...

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#67 [url]

Jan 10 17 7:33 PM

Funnily enough I was thinking earlier that it's not a huge stretch now to go to 96 teams, if they kept their new format they'd only need to add one knockout round to what they already have. With regards to host cities and such it might be a bit more challenging though...

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#68 [url]

Jan 10 17 8:27 PM

I suspect the qualifying will be simplified so in reality there won't be more matches for players. Some teams play way too many qualifying matches as it is now. Only downside is perhaps that many teams will find themselves going home after playing two matches only.

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#69 [url]

Jan 10 17 9:31 PM

I say keep increasing until Vanuatu vs Costa Rica is on prime time TV, so that my letter is proved right in the end :-)

FIFA wouldn't want the qualifying to decrease much as they would lose revenue from those matches,

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TheRoonBa

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#70 [url]

Jan 10 17 9:55 PM

So some teams will only play 2 matches. Not much when you've been preparing for half a year and have travelled across the world to compete.

The World Cup is already as inclusive as it can be - it allows all FIFA members to qualify. But I think there was perhaps some irritation from the continental competitions below: The World Cup went from having twice as many teams as any continental tournament (32/16) to just 1.25 times (32/24). Now the balance has been redressed (48/24). It's now officially the daddy again - also, it is the daddy of all international team sports in terms of number of teams.

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#71 [url]

Jan 11 17 7:01 PM

nfm24 wrote:
Infantino : the World Cup has to be "more inclusive"

So I expect teams from Jupiter and Saturn to enter in 2026.
Pretty sure the lads wearing the Brazil's kit at the 1970 World Cup already came from another dimension... Mars or something... They could not be simple earthly footballers!

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#72 [url]

Jan 11 17 10:09 PM

TheRoonBa wrote:
So some teams will only play 2 matches. Not much when you've been preparing for half a year and have travelled across the world to compete.

The World Cup is already as inclusive as it can be - it allows all FIFA members to qualify. But I think there was perhaps some irritation from the continental competitions below: The World Cup went from having twice as many teams as any continental tournament (32/16) to just 1.25 times (32/24). Now the balance has been redressed (48/24). It's now officially the daddy again - also, it is the daddy of all international team sports in terms of number of teams.
In fairness, it will actually be the same number of teams that play a minimum of 3 matches, it's the 16 bonus teams that will leave on 2. Unless FIFA really want to twist some pundit's nerves and introduce full-scale positional play-offs (looking forward to the 25th-28th Place Semi-Finals)...

If we incorporate convenient sponsorship opportunities into self-awarded titles, then FIFA can be the mac daddy of world football smiley: pimp...

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#73 [url]

Jan 13 17 8:18 PM

Because for some reason I can't stop with this hypothetical football competition mapping, and the World Cup news offering fresh material to work with, and people moaning about how it will ruin World Cup Qualifiers particularly in the continent with the fewest but most competitive members, I got bored at work and decided to take on the mental challenge of making South America's Qualifiers non-redundant.

This format works on the assumption that South America will receive 6.5 World Cup places in the expansion:

  • First, the 10 teams are drawn into 2 groups of 5 and play eachother home & away for a total of 8 matches each.
  • The top 2 teams in each group qualify directly to the World Cup, as well as for a new 4-team tournament called the CONMEBOL Nations League. Each team could play the other home & away for a total of 6 matches each.
  • Meanwhile, the teams who finished 3rd-5th in the First Qualifying Round move to the Second Qualifying Round, where they will play in 2 groups of 3 (home & away for 4 matches each). Both the group winners qualify.
  • 2nd place in each group then go to the Third Qualifying Round, a home & away Play-Off to decide the team that makes the Intercontinental Play-Offs.
  • An alternative format is to have 1 group of 6 in the Second Qualifying Round, with the results from the First carrying over between teams that have already met, or to play the league as normal. Either way, the top 2 would qualify and 3rd place would enter the Intercontinental Play-Offs.
  • If South America end up with 7 or 7.5 places, the Second Round onwards is tweaked accordingly.
This format takes away the unique 'league' structure, but does deliver something that would remain competitive throughout, would be played over the same or lower number of matches (the most any team will play is 18 (not including intercontinental stuff) compared with the current, er, 18), and for the big performers allows them to claim their reward early as well as compete for an elite new tournament, and frees up some international windows to spare, so Brazil can carry on adding dates to their never-ending 'World Tour' (assuming they don't bottle it in the new format).

As per usual, any relevant FIFA or CONMEBOL executives out there can DM me for my payment details.

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#74 [url]

Jan 14 17 6:29 PM

mattsanger92 wrote:
Because for some reason I can't stop with this hypothetical football competition mapping
 I would again encourage you to get involved in the historical research - a priori it's just like hypothetical football, except that it also actually happened.

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#75 [url]

Mar 30 17 6:18 PM

The confederations have now agreed on the allocation of places, likely to be confirmed at the FIFA Congress in May:

Europe: 16
South America: 6
Asia: 8
North America: 6
Africa: 9
Oceania: 1
(Playoffs: 2)

Interesting move to not give the hosts their own slot (so obviously gets taken out of their continent's allocations - meaning the proposed USA/Mexico/Canada bid for 2026 would send CONCACAF's Qualifiers back to its current format).

But the real twist is the playoff method - apparently the next-best team in each continent (except Europe) plus a bonus team from the host continent will play a 6-team tournament in November for the 2 remaining places, held in the World Cup host country as a warm-up event. The tweet I linked to suggested it could be the end of the Confederations Cup but surely FIFA would just look to move it back to an additional event they can take to different host nations?

At the very least, it ensures Oceania's allocation moves up to 1.33, if Vanuatu can get at least 2nd in their qualifiers and Costa Rica get at least 7th in theirs, someone's dreams might be coming true...

Last Edited By: mattsanger92 Mar 30 17 6:26 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#76 [url]

Mar 30 17 7:32 PM

What that would mean in practical terms today:

UEFA: Belgium, Croatia, England, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Rep. Ireland, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Wales
CONMEBOL: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Peru, Uruguay
AFC: Australia, Iran, Japan, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Syria, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan
CONCACAF: Canada, Costa Rica, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, United States
CAF: Algeria, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Egypt, Ivory Coast, Morocco, Nigeria, Senegal, South Africa
OFC: New Zealand
Play-offs: China, DR Congo, Ecuador, Guatemala*, Jamaica, New Caledonia

* second CONCACAF spot assuming NAFTA bid wins.


Also curious to see how seeding at the final tournament would work - will each UEFA team be assigned to its own group so that FIFA may maintain its 'regional diversity' criteria?


PS: I'll settle for Guatemala v New Caledonia.

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#78 [url]

Apr 15 17 8:35 PM

mattsanger92 wrote:
But the real twist is the playoff method... a 6-team tournament in November for the 2 remaining places, held in the World Cup host country as a warm-up event. The tweet I linked to suggested it could be the end of the Confederations Cup but surely FIFA would just look to move it back to an additional event they can take to different host nations?

At the very least, it ensures Oceania's allocation moves up to 1.33, if Vanuatu can get at least 2nd in their qualifiers and Costa Rica get at least 7th in theirs, someone's dreams might be coming true...
So, different circumstances but I did previously suggest this as a possible thing that FIFA might do for an expanded Club World Cup:
  • All winners of the 4 secondary continental cups (all except North America & Oceania) over the 4 seasons enter some sort of play-off that produces 2 qualifiers (2)
What are the odds that Infantino is the ghost of this forum?

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#79 [url]

Apr 20 17 1:12 PM

Hi,

i am pretty new to this board and i am a soccer statician focusing on international matches.

for the 48 team world cup, i proposed an own set of rule already in october and handed it over to FIFA. However FIFA went on with their system of 3 x 16 groups, which i dont like much, as it comes with lots of conflicts (no parallel last group matches, uneven groups, penalties after draws, etc.)

My proposal is availble on youtube for details.

The basic is, that you get rid of own common standard of world cups that is active since 1954, and when you sacrifice this standard, you gain a great format in all other aspects.

The paradigma that is sacrificed is that the group phases has a round-robin format. In 1954, it was the last time, that this hasnt been the case, as in Switzerland there were 2 seeds and 2 unseeded teams in each group and only seeded-vs-unseeded matches took place. Every worldcup after, all groups consisted of 4 teams with round-robin matches (6 matches per group)

In short, my proposal looks as follows:

* 8 "groups" with 6 teams (we call them hexes)
* by draw, there will be 16 pools with 3 teams (one top-seed, one mid-strength, one outsider in each pool)
* always two of theses pools of 3 teams create a hex of 6 teams (so you have twin pools A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2....., H1, H2 and hexes A to H)
* instead of round-robin matches within a hex (would result in 15 matches, 5 per team), the schedule only offers 3 matches for each team in the 1st round.
* so, which matches are played, which arent? Pretty Easy. Each team of a pool plays all teams of its twin pool, so Topseed of A1 does not play other teams of A1 but Topseed of A2, midstrength team of A2 and outsider of A2)
* the table is created for the whole hexes, so there are 8 tables of 6 teams which all play 3 matches. A well-organized schedule allows to have the last 3 hex matches being staged in parallel!
* the winner and the runner-up of each hex are going through to the round of 16 and from that on, the current format applies.
* In total, this will lead to 88 matches, but again with smart scheduling, this can happen in a timeframe of 31 days.

all details and an example draw is shown in my video www.youtube.com/watch?v=rApXuzOnjq4&t

what are your opinions on this? 

Last Edited By: gibraldo Apr 20 17 2:02 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#80 [url]

Apr 20 17 3:39 PM

or keep it simple (if you want to expand..)
8 groups of 6: gives every team 5 games
number 1 and 2 of each group  qualify for the round of 16...

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