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#941 [url]

Mar 16 17 9:39 AM

nfm24 wrote:
The problem with heavy-handed rulings made by people who don't really understand the subject (hello FIFA) is that you then have e.g. the ridiculous situation that matches of clear youth teams are counted as if they were "A" teams (because it is a continental championship match), whereas on the other hand matches between clear "A" teams are discounted (because it was an Olympic match or a friendly with some minor breach of protocol).

Working with reality is preferable.

World Cup and Continental championship are the most important matches NT's play. Compare this with league matches club teams will play. Let's say team A have already won the national league and want to save their best players for a CL match, so they use it to test youth players (or giving them extra experience). The league match remains official as it is scheduled as such. I will say if a match is scheduled as official A-matches (and that counts for al World Cup and Continental championship matches) it should be regarded as such as there are no restrictions.

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#942 [url]

Mar 16 17 10:08 AM

mattsanger92 wrote:

Fast Midfielder wrote:
Regarding Brazil. As they fielded an U-20 (some even say U-17) both Estonia and Finland got very cheap wins against Brazil for their records if these matches were count as A.
Going back to my earlier point, I'd say that was more 'very cheap defeats' for Brazil than cheap wins for the others. They entered a senior-level tournament and should be treated like that for the duration of their stay no matter who they put on the pitch. If a club in the Champions League puts out a youth squad for a dead rubber game and loses they can't just turn around and claim the result doesn't count towards their co-efficient.

Where I come from they call it very cheap wins as the wins were got much more easier as if these teams would have played against Brazil's full national team. In case of defeats we are used to say very costly defeats as you pay something as a price for it. So this may explain why we name the same things different. Apart from this I think I get your point. Regarding the Brazil squad, the U-20's (or even U-17s?) were part of the same squad. Just like at the World Cup or Continental matches where some nations field in their final group match their reserves to save some players.

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#943 [url]

Mar 17 17 2:11 AM

> World Cup and Continental championship are the most important matches NT's play.

This was not always 100% true (almost). In some of the examples of youth teams being fielded in continental tournaments, it was because priorities were elsewhere.

A specific example : Japan fielded a B team in the 1967 Asian Cup qualifiers, while the A team was playing friendlies in South America building towards the Olympic Games. The Asian Cup qualfiers are *not* considered as A matches by the JFA.

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#944 [url]

Mar 17 17 12:26 PM

This looks like if - in club football - Ajax won't count a League match against i.e. Go Ahead Eagles because they field their B-team or against Achilles '29 for the Dutch FA Cup and don't award players a cap for these matches.

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#946 [url]

Mar 30 17 1:27 PM

Quite a honest reaction by Jersey FA



Dear Madam/Sir, Please

can you tell me if Jersey FA regard the matched played by Jerrsey national team as official international matches? I thank you in advance for youtr anser. Best regards.

Hello, the answer is that it depends on our opposition and their status. For example Northern Ireland v Jersey would be classed as international Friendly against foreign opposition.Thank you for your question is there any further help we could offer?


thanks for your quick reply. Bur will an international Friendly against foreign opposition regard as an official international by Jersey FA? And how about matches vs. i.e. Gurensey or Gibraltar? Best regards.

We would considered it international but I don't believe it is deemed an international friendly officially.



why?

As we are not yet a member of UEFA so they can not be international friendlies.


is that a critereon? England were i.e. no FIFA member until 1910 and from 1928 to 1956. Yet they count the international matches they played at the time as official. Hungary i.e. became FIFA member in 1907, but Hunagrian FA regard all their matches played from 1902-1907 as official.


They cannot be international friendlies in the eyes of UEFA as we are not a member of the UN, we do play teams form nation states, it is subjective to the individual some people see us a independent state others not. My knowledge of the subject is some what lacking, but I would conclude by saying its an individual perspective.


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#947 [url]

Mar 31 17 7:59 AM

Fast Midfielder wrote:
We would considered it international but I don't believe it is deemed an international friendly officially.



why?

As we are not yet a member of UEFA so they can not be international friendlies.


is that a critereon? England were i.e. no FIFA member until 1910 and from 1928 to 1956. Yet they count the international matches they played at the time as official. Hungary i.e. became FIFA member in 1907, but Hunagrian FA regard all their matches played from 1902-1907 as official.


They cannot be international friendlies in the eyes of UEFA as we are not a member of the UN, we do play teams form nation states, it is subjective to the individual some people see us a independent state others not. My knowledge of the subject is some what lacking, but I would conclude by saying its an individual perspective.

I agree about your criterion: a Football Association should have the right to decide whether a match is of "A" category or not, regardless of its belonging to FIFA or to UEFA.
But what about this point? The Scottish FA counts also the games played before the foundation of its Football Association. I have a different opinion about this point: the matches played outside the jurisdiction of a Football Association should not be recognized, otherwise anyone can form a personal "Football Association" and a personal "national team". I am sure that not only the Scottish FA, but other countries, recognize some matches played before the foundation of their FA, but at this moment I can't remember which ones.

Last Edited By: Luca Mar 31 17 8:05 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#948 [url]

Mar 31 17 9:42 AM

France also counts is matches before the foundation of its FA as official. FFF is founded 1919, France plays official internationals since 1904. FFF has taken over the pre 1919 results and so would SFA have done with the matches before their foundation. Amd how about Greece at the 1920 Olympics? Greek FA was founded in 1926.

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#949 [url]

Apr 4 17 7:57 AM

Fast Midfielder wrote:
Luca wrote:IFHHS declare that they recognize as "A" matches also the matches played over 1952 and 1956 Olympic Games, while FIFA, on this press kit http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/stats-centclub/52/00/59/fifacenturyclubmen.pdf declare that they recognize only matches played up to and including 1948 Olympics...

And even not all of them, because FIFA writes something like with certain exceptions. But they don't write which the exceptions are.

I have just consulted FIFA's list. All the matches played by Great Britain at the Olympic Games have been deleted. So these are the certain exceptions they refer to.

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#950 [url]

Apr 4 17 11:40 AM

I think the issue there is that you're not allowed to select Great Britain as a team for comparison, because it's not a (current) member association. But if you check their opponents' pages those matches will still be included.

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#951 [url]

Apr 6 17 12:25 AM

FIFA.com now includes all the Olympic matches incl qualifiers in their database. But they also include futsal and beach football so it no longer provides a clear distinction of recognised "A" matches. I think that was wise and now more qualified people can do the job instead.

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#952 [url]

Apr 6 17 12:53 AM

On a similar note;
Indonesia in 1984 is a tough nut. Indonesia NT based on Galatama (pro) league only played the World Cup and Olympic matches. Indonesia Garuda (youth) played the 1984 Asian Cup qualifiers and Indonesia Perserikatan (amateur) team played Merdeka Tournament. This was a common thing for Indonesia for many years prior. They didn't share the player pool so different teams played in different competitions..

nfm24 wrote:
> World Cup and Continental championship are the most important matches NT's play.

This was not always 100% true (almost). In some of the examples of youth teams being fielded in continental tournaments, it was because priorities were elsewhere.

A specific example : Japan fielded a B team in the 1967 Asian Cup qualifiers, while the A team was playing friendlies in South America building towards the Olympic Games. The Asian Cup qualfiers are *not* considered as A matches by the JFA.


www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#954 [url]

Apr 10 17 10:37 PM

SDb wrote:
Indonesia in 1984 is a tough nut. Indonesia NT based on Galatama (pro) league only played the World Cup and Olympic matches. Indonesia Garuda (youth) played the 1984 Asian Cup qualifiers and Indonesia Perserikatan (amateur) team played Merdeka Tournament. This was a common thing for Indonesia for many years prior. They didn't share the player pool so different teams played in different competitions..
It goes back to the same old argument of whether a national FA has the privilege to pick any players it wants for any match under its jurisdiction, and to decide itself whether a match is "official" (or whatever language they choose), or whether third-party score collectors (such as ourselves) can make independent decisions based on actual team strength (and other factors), in the process assigning an obligation to the national FAs to field their strongest available teams.

In other words, who has the "right" to define an international match for country X ?

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#955 [url]

Apr 12 17 11:37 AM

Also a strange situation: Russian FA regard the matches USSR played at the 1976 Olympics as official A, but not its qualifying matches (against Norway and Iceland, who played with their full team).

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TheRoonBa

Posts: 5,526 Site Admin

#957 [url]

May 29 17 11:18 AM

I think we should be more strict - the national team of a country is meant to be the best selection of football players eligible to represent that country. Some players get lucky and get called up fortuitously (like the Croatia players who went to LA to play Mexico), but I think this devalues the national team (and caps). The players did not get selected based on ability, but on circumstances (i.e. the best players were being preserved or were with their clubs). FAs should really label these matches as B matches. It doesn't seem right that a squad with ten uncapped players can be counted as the national team for such an established football nation as Croatia. This time, it worked well for them (beating Mexico), but it could easily have been terrible (would they have counted the match as official if they had lost 4-0?).

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#958 [url]

May 29 17 11:42 AM

Even though I have a different opinion, I understand your opinion quite well. Your motivation is quite sensible, but in this case many matches countries as i.e. Sweden, Poland and Germany have played, should be deleted as these countries played two (Sweden even on one occasion three) matches simultaneously. The double fixtures mostly have one thing in common. The real A-team played against serious opposition, the other one (actually B-team) against weak opposition.

The latter is also one of the reasons I even would count matches B-teams played against Luxembourg as A for both sides as we can read here. It even happened regularly the B-team obtained at the time better results against Luxembourg than the A-teams, especially in friendlies. In most NT's about four or five players are very sure it won't cost their place into their NT if they play poor in a friendly against Luxembourg. Those who take over their places will give 100% in order to show te coch hey should play. They are more motivated than the regulars.

The Croatia case vs Mexico is different, but it still is a match a coach can test new players. Indeed, this way you devaluate A-international matches. Nevertheless, history has shown a lot of such matches. Around 2010 it were the August friendlies, but since then - and even before - also the many subtstitutions in friendlies which even have killed many matches.

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#959 [url]

May 31 17 9:38 PM

According to Italian FA Website an official A-international match, but not for FIFA-ranking.

However, A-match or not the team that played San Marino last night can't even be named B-team. If this match is considered A, the matches Italy B played against Luxembourg should have been regarded A-internationals as well.

Player


CapsClub
Simone Scuffet   1Udinese Calcio, Udine
Andrea Conti   out.gif 70' 1Atalanta B.C., Bergamo
in.gif 70' Cristiano Biraghi   1Delfino Pescara 1936, Pescara
Mattia Caldara   1Atalanta B.C., Bergamo
Gian Marco Ferrari   1F.C. Crotone, Crotone
Danilo D`Ambrosio   2F.C. Inter, Milano
Roberto Gagliardini   out.gif 46' 2F.C. Inter, Milano
in.gif 46' Danilo Cataldi   1Genoa C. & F.C., Genova
Daniele Baselli   out.gif 46' 1Torino F.C., Torino
in.gif 46' Lorenzo Pellegrini   1U.S. Sassuolo Calcio, Sassuolo
Andrea Petagna   out.gif 46' 2Atalanta B.C., Bergamo
in.gif 46' Diego Falcinelli   1F.C. Crotone, Crotone
Gianluca Lapadula   1A.C. Milan, Milano
Domenico Berardi  Captain  out.gif 46' 1U.S. Sassuolo Calcio, Sassuolo
in.gif 46' Matteo Politano   1U.S. Sassuolo Calcio, Sassuolo
Federico Chiesa   out.gif 63' 1A.C.F. Fiorentina, Firenze
in.gif 63' Gianluca Caprari   1Delfino Pescara 1936, Pescara

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TheRoonBa

Posts: 5,526 Site Admin

#960 [url]

Jun 1 17 8:59 AM

I think it also depends on your motive for collecting results.

For example, my motive is (ultimately) to create a ranking. So, for me, countries using their B/C/CHAN team does not tell me anything about how to rank A teams. So, at least as far as more recent matches go, I can label these as B matches and not include them for ranking purposes (but still include a record of them on my site).

If the motive is simply to collect the results to have a record, I think these recent Croatia/Italy-type matches can be included as A matches, but with a note mentioning the large divergence from the "normal" A-team squad.

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