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TheRoonBa

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Jul 7 17 8:30 PM

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So, on the eve of the opening match:  controversy.

Florent Malouda is ineligible to compete for French Guiana, according to CONCACAF, as he has previously played for France.  CONCACAF apparently runs its Gold Cup under FIFA rules, so even if their teams are not part of FIFA, they still have to abide by the change of nationality rules.

However, Jocelyn Angloma was allowed to play for Guadeloupe in the 2007 Gold Cup under similar circumstances...
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#1 [url]

Jul 10 17 7:32 PM

I've found out this interview, in which the CONCACAF President declares: «The FIFA Statutes are clear: when a player represents a national team over an official competition like the World Cup - and Mr. Malouda did participate in a World Cup - then he can no longer appear for another national team. We asked FIFA, but their Statutes are clear and Malouda cannot participate in an official competition like the Gold Cup, which belongs to the FIFA Calendar».

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TheRoonBa

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#2 [url]

Jul 10 17 7:56 PM

Luca wrote:
I've found out this interview, in which the CONCACAF President declares: «The FIFA Statutes are clear: when a player represents a national team over an official competition like the World Cup - and Mr. Malouda did participate in a World Cup - then he can no longer appear for another national team. We asked FIFA, but their Statutes are clear and Malouda cannot participate in an official competition like the Gold Cup, which belongs to the FIFA Calendar».
Jocelyn Angloma played for France at Euro 96 (which also belongs to the "FIFA calendar") - but he was allowed to play at the Gold Cup for Guadeloupe.

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#4 [url]

Jul 11 17 7:31 PM

It's a strange rule for a strange situation - but French Guiana (like many of us probably did) obviously thought the 5-year thing was still allowed otherwise why would they call him up?

And FIFA/CONCACAF should know the score on their own rules, they know that 2 of the teams that this rule applies to had qualified for the Gold Cup and they knew Malouda was in the 40-man preliminary squad, why wait not only after the 40 or the 23 has been announced, but just one day before their first match (also first match ever at a major tournament) to tell them he's not allowed to play? That part alone is ridiculous.

As for Motta, isn't that one for the 'what to classify as a full international' thread? Brazil called it an U23 but FIFA and CONCACAF recognised their matches as full competitive internationals (which I agree with), so why under their own rules let him play for Italy afterwards? I suppose going into the grey zone, for Brazil their matches could be classified as friendlies from their end... guess we'll just have to wait and see if they go inconsistent in the future and block some otherwise non-tied Mexican or Costa Rican player from switching allegiance for being in a Copa America squad one time...

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#6 [url]

Jul 12 17 8:32 AM

CONCACAF Statement Miami (Tuesday, July 11, 2017) – In regards to the election of the French Guiana National Team to field player Florent Malouda in this evening's Gold Cup match against the Honduras National Team, and in line with the CONCACAF Gold Cup 2017 Regulations which are governed by FIFA Regulations pertaining to player eligibility, the matter has been referred to the CONCACAF Gold Cup Disciplinary Committee. The Disciplinary Committee will review the case and render its decision in due time.

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#7 [url]

Jul 12 17 9:22 AM

mattsanger92 wrote:
As for Motta, isn't that one for the 'what to classify as a full international' thread? Brazil called it an U23 but FIFA and CONCACAF recognised their matches as full competitive internationals (which I agree with), so why under their own rules let him play for Italy afterwards? I suppose going into the grey zone, for Brazil their matches could be classified as friendlies from their end...
It was a borderline situation indeed. FIFA decided to allow him to represent Italy because they didn't consider the Brazilian side that took part in the 2003 Gold Cup as a major national team. Brazil competed in the Gold Cup with an Under-23 team in 1996 and in 2003, while in 1998 they sent their major team.

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#8 [url]

Jul 12 17 10:19 AM

Match currently under review.

Definitely an interesting twist. In general I disagree with going behind the backs of the rulemakers as it probably ends up causing more trouble than it's worth, but since there's so much self-made ambiguity by FIFA/CONCACAF over what the rule actually is and whether it actually applies to French Guiana, I'm filing this one under 'let the chaos unfold and see what the outcome is'. Would be a shame if they lose their first-ever tournament point (against one of the continent's best teams too) because of this farce though.

Side observation, looking at the only attendance figures on Wikipedia right now I'm just wondering how they actually calculate it. The official attendance for Canada v French Guiana is given as 25,817 (the exact same as Costa Rica v Honduras straight afterwards), yet photographic evidence shows that clearly there aren't 25 thousand people present:

https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/soccer/2017/07/07/davies-pair-lift-canadian-men-past-french-guiana/gold1.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x664.jpg

Then the next day's double-header had the 'headline' match played first, but is reported more accurately in that the second match is recorded with a far lower attendance like it appeared to have.

Only thing I can think of is that the people coming in specifically to watch the Costa Rica v Honduras match were counted as coming into the stadium during Canada v French Guiana (fair enough) even if it was as those teams were walking off the pitch, but even then the numbers shouldn't be exactly the same when the very next day they've shown to take those between-match differences into account, which means they've reported the first day as a combined double-header attendance for each match and the second day as each match having its own attendance figure, makes no sense to be that inconsistent.

Last Edited By: mattsanger92 Jul 12 17 10:53 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#9 [url]

Jul 12 17 6:38 PM

[pasting reply from duplicate thread]

Matches involving French Guiana (or Guadeloupe) are not international "A" matches according to FIFA, so the FIFA rules on players being cup-tied do not apply in the same way to players "switching" between France and French Guiana (or Guadeloupe). From FIFA's perspective, the "French Guiana national team" is a French regional selection.

The statutes (of both FIFA and CONCACAF) don't seem to have been written in such a way as to construe the eligibilty rules to apply to the likes of French Guiana, even if the quoted article (from BlueLou below) suggests that CONCACAF wants them to apply to French Guiana. Indeed CONCACAF's statutes appear to defer the nationality/eligibility issue to the FIFA statutes, but that is their own problem. French Guiana has a different status in the CONCACAF statues to that in the FIFA statutes.

French Guiana should field Malouda and cite the precedents of Angloma etc.

Last Edited By: nfm24 Jul 12 17 6:41 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#10 [url]

Jul 12 17 6:39 PM

[BlueLou post from other duplicate thread]

Malouda has been declared ineligible for the Gold Cup (although he played in the qualifiers).

Malouda's ineligibility was confirmed to SI.com by a CONCACAF spokesperson late Thursday.

"The rules say he's ineligible," the spokesperson said. "We are using FIFA rules, and so a player who has played in an official match for a different [national team] cannot play in Gold Cup. More precisely, he is not eligible to play. He can play, but he's not eligible."

They don't help themselves, do they ? 

Jocelyn Angloma got away with it.

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#11 [url]

Jul 12 17 7:28 PM

CONCACAF must be happy: these players are good for the level of the competition, and a said: how can FIFA rules apply for non-FIFA members
I hope they will not change the result of the game against Honduras

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#12 [url]

Jul 12 17 7:33 PM

2007 Regulations for Players (when Jocelyn Angouma switched from France to play for Guadeloupe)

(I found them on the SocaWarriors forum linking to the 2007 regulations which is no longer accessible.)


XIII. ELIGIBILITY OF PLAYERS 
1. Each participating Association shall select its national epresentative team from the best players who are subjects of its country and under its jurisdiction and are eligible for selection in accordance with the provisions of Article 15 of the Regulations governing the Application of FIFA Statutes. 

2. Each player must be in possession of a legal individual passport containing an up to date photograph and giving full particulars on the date of birth (day. month, year) of the player. If a player is not in possession of a legal individual passport, he shall not be allowed to participate in the tournament. 

3. A member Association which has entered the competition shall not refer to its selection as an inferior selection publicly or in the print and/or electronic media.
2017 Regulations for Players (when Florent Malouda switched from France to play for French Guiana)
ELIGIBILITY OF PLAYERS AND TEAM REGISTRATION
a. Each participating Member Association shall select its national representative team from the best players who are nationals of its country and under its jurisdiction, and are eligible for selection in accordance with the provisions of the applicable FIFA Regulations.

b. A Member Association which has entered the Competition shall not refer (directly or indirectly) to its selection as an inferior selection publicly or in the print and/or electronic media. A team, which fails to heed this requirement, shall (at a minimum) automatically forfeit part or all of its prize money as determined by the CONCACAF Council.

c. A Member Association participating in the Competition shall ensure, as a condition of its participation, that every member of its official delegation (officials and players) be included in the team’s Official Delegation List and complete an entry form to be specified by CONCACAF

d. Each player must be in possession of a legal individual passport containing an up-to-date photograph and giving full particulars on the date of birth (day, month and year) of the player. If a player is not in possession of a legal individual passport, he shall not be allowed to participate in the Competition.

e. Upon arrival at the first venue of the Competition each Member Association’s head of delegation or team administrator shall immediately submit the individual passports of its players for verification to the designated representative of CONCACAF.

f. The Member Associations shall be responsible for fielding only eligible players. Failure to do so shall lead to the consequences stipulated in the applicable regulations

Last Edited By: Blue Lou Jul 12 17 7:52 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#13 [url]

Jul 12 17 8:03 PM


“We take our responsibility,” Karam said. “We were pressured with fines, a potential suspension, losing points. … We didn’t have an answer from FIFA, and we weren’t fully sure of how to make our legal argument. We made the decision from within — I didn’t want to take the risk. Now that we’re sure about our legal situation, we’ve decided to go fight, and it’s a fight we’re going to win.”


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#14 [url]

Jul 13 17 1:41 PM

Sounds good from FG. The point is simply that FG is a "Member Association" of CONCACAF but not of FIFA, so the choice to use that terminology in the CONCACAF rules while simultaneously deferring the details over to the FIFA rules is open to loopholes. Indeed, FG could field Ronaldo and Messi in this event if they wanted.

However, I suspect FIFA will be keen to avoid loopholes so they will probably rule against FG here anyway, even though the rules wording is in FG's favour.

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#16 [url]

Jul 14 17 9:57 AM

CONCACAF Gold Cup Disciplinary Committee Issues Decision in French Guiana Player Eligibility Case

Miami (Thursday, July 13, 2017) - The Confederation of North, Central America and Caribbean Association Football (CONCACAF) announced this evening the decisions taken by the Gold Cup Disciplinary Committee, in the case regarding French Guiana fielding an ineligible player in its July 11 CONCACAF Gold Cup match against Honduras.

As a consequence of fielding Florent Malouda, who was confirmed by the Disciplinary Committee to be ineligible to play in the Gold Cup 2017 according to the applicable regulations, the Disciplinary Committee has levied sanctions and fines against the French Guiana Football League (LGF) and has suspended the player ruled ineligible.

Specifically, the Disciplinary Committee has imposed the following sanctions and fines, which took immediate effect:
The French Guiana national team is ruled to forfeit its Gold Cup match played against Honduras on July 11, 2017, and the official result is ruled a 3-0 victory for Honduras,

The French Guiana Football League is fined an undisclosed amount, and

Florent Malouda has been suspended for two official matches, during which he will serve a concurrent stadium ban.
Group A play at CONCACAF Gold Cup 2017 resumes tomorrow at Toyota Stadium in Frisco, Texas. French Guiana will face Costa Rica, while Honduras takes on Canada to close out group play.

Last Edited By: Blue Lou Jul 14 17 11:35 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#18 [url]

Jul 14 17 11:03 AM

It is a particularly stupid wording to say "suspended for two official matches", when the player is permanently ineligible anyway (according to CONCACAF), and also FG matches are not "official" matches.

FG should just field Malouda again in their next match, regardless of this.

Thinking back to the various qualifiers when African teams fielded suspended players and then forfeited the match 3-0, I'm still confused as to why a match is allowed to take place at all, when it is known in advance that one team is fielding an ineligible player. Why isn't this a minimal check made when the team-sheets are handed in? How can it possibly be dealt with only after the match? In this case Malouda's eligibility was disputed of course, but in CONCACAF's view they *knew* he was ineligible in advance of the tournament. So why allow the match to go ahead at all? As soon as Malouda is named on the FG team-sheet, CONCACAF can make the 3-0 ruling then and not bother playing the match, surely? Why do they have to wait until afterwards?

I think all this nonsense will just lead to a tightening of rules, probably more unfavourable towards FIFA non-members such as FG and Guadeloupe etc.

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#20 [url]

Jul 14 17 1:05 PM

nfm24 wrote:
Chuck Blazer Memorial Trophy.
Shouldn't that be "Meowmorial Trophy"? Still got no idea how Trump let that little episode happen (he must have known) when his brand's meant to be all about high quality and being for 'the best', although this is a man who put his name to steaks with no prior culinary experience.

The tournament can get back to its regular name when Mr Warner passes on, turning it into the Jack Warner Comedian Fool's Gold Cup.

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