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#41 [url]

Jan 9 14 12:16 PM

Yes, but that decision was made (and reported here) over a year ago.

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#42 [url]

Jan 11 14 10:30 AM

Blue Lou wrote:
Apparently FIFA are to consider all CHAN tournament games as "A" international results.


Interesting article which might be useful for this topic as well. FIFA policy makes things more complicated as necessary. I would say to count matches played by CHAN teams only if an A-international match has been arranged and the NT-manager decide to field a CHAN team. Matches played for restrictive competition cannot be regarded as A-international at all.

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#43 [url]

Jan 11 14 10:50 AM

Fast Midfielder wrote:
Matches played for restrictive competition cannot be regarded as A-international at all.

I would say yes, except for countries for which the restrictions have little or no effect.   E.g. for historical Olympics, the rules would not restrict teams with amateur leagues and no (or very few) players playing in foreign professional leagues.  But it is tedious and also complicated to make a ruling country by country... even if the data is available.

I don't understand why people cannot "call a spade a spade". These teams are domestic selections, so call them that.  Now, FIFA can by all means list the matches as B internationals, or some other category.  It can even allow such matches to contribute to the rankings to some degree, if it wants (the rankings are so poor anyway).  But do not confuse such matches with real internationals.

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#44 [url]

Jan 11 14 11:46 AM

Domestic selections is a better name, it's most clear to everybody. The restrictions would have a little or no effect for some countries. The situation however is different as i.e pre 1970s. In the old days even many countries with professional football actually had semi professional football. In Netherlands i.e. in the beginning years of professionalism there were no full professionals. Even the top players had a "normal" profession besides football.

Of course also before i.e. the 1970s there were players from amateur countries who went abroad to play as a professional, but certainly not on todays scale. I remember in the 1970s in Dutch professional football most foreigners came from Yugoslavia, also many from the Scandinavian countries and some players from different players. Nowadays they really come from all kind of countries. We have had professional players from countries as Gambia, Moldova and Rwanda. That's also a reason to make it complicated to make a ruling country by country (not to mention in combination with year by year).

Even though we do it the very strict way, exceptions will be created. They will be created anyhow even if we don't want to. The A-inernational topic is full of these kind of examples. Why one match wih hardly any changes compared with the usual A-national team is not regarded as A-international and why some other matches with many changes is?

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TheRoonBa

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#45 [url]

Jan 11 14 5:36 PM

The real test of the negative effect CHAN matches will have on the ranking of CAF teams will come when the CHAN tournament is over, and we see the movement in the ranking. So far, only qualifiers and friendlies have been included. If previous CHAN results are anything to go by, it will totally screw up the position of the African teams. The Top 4 from the 2011 tournament were Tunisia/Angola/Sudan/Algeria. In 2009, DR Congo won the tournament, and hosts Ivory Coast lost 0-1 to Tanzania, 0-3 to Zambia and drew 0-0 with Senegal. These 3 match results would have had a horrendous effect on Ivory Coast's ranking if they'd been included. Also, half of the time, the CHAN friendly matches are not official, because the FAs do not notify CAF or FIFA (because, clearly, they don't think they need to, or they don't class them as 'A' international matches themselves).  So we have a situation where there is no difference at all between the status of these friendly matches, but only the select few who notify CAF get their matches included.

Anyway - FIFA made the decision based on idiotic logic. On their heads be it.

Last Edited By: TheRoonBa Jan 11 14 5:38 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#46 [url]

Jan 11 14 8:25 PM

One way round it for FIFA would be to get CAF to remove the restriction to home-based (or Africa based) players. But keep the tournament on dates outside the FIFA calendar. Then the teams are de jure non-restrictive, so they could fulfil the FIFA statutes to be A international matches (unlike at present), but de facto would still be restrictive to countries with players in major leagues. Basically the same teams will show up, except for a few players based in China I guess.

They're too stupid to think of that very simple solution though.

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#47 [url]

Jan 13 14 7:35 AM

I think we should record all the data for these matches, in case in some distant future all the records are again lost except for FIFA's crummy online database, which would then become the gospel.

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#49 [url]

Jan 14 14 7:27 PM

This is very much like the old Olympics; I think individual look at the teams is required.
However, the´re a lot of European "CHAN" teams as well which are included as A matches so it's really pretty much the same. Unfortunately only few CAF teams keep open records of which matches they consider official A matches..

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#50 [url]

Jan 14 14 7:32 PM

Absolutely. That's why I mentioned CHEN.

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#51 [url]

Jan 18 14 10:41 AM

I just can add that FIFA uses the same criteria about the Superclásico de las Américas, a friendly tournament involving Argentina and Brazil. Both sides must employ their local players, exactly like the CHAN teams, and FIFA regards Superclásico's matches as full official.

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TheRoonBa

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#53 [url]

Jan 19 14 10:31 AM

They also included New Caledonia-Tahiti at the Coupe de l'Outre-Mer as an official A match. Technically, both teams were restricted (league selections).

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TheRoonBa

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#54 [url]

Jan 20 14 10:42 PM

Ghana's currently unbeaten 2 matches at the CHAN 2014 tournament will cause them to lose 99 points (12% of their entire ranking points) in the next ranking release.

Meanwhile, Libya and Gabon (also both unbeaten) will lose 17 points and 28 points respectively.

Pointless.

Last Edited By: TheRoonBa Jan 20 14 10:51 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#56 [url]

Jan 21 14 8:21 AM

… but logical – according to ‘FIFA mathematics’. To avoid this nonsense, but there were two options: not to qualify with one victory and a bigger defeat (see Cote d'Ivoire) - thus the penalty point effect for playing friendly matches is greatly reduced. Even better: withdrawal of the team from the competition (see Algeria).

In the case of Algeria you can recognize that FIFA ranking is not mindless. It basically follows Dalai Lama's philosophy "top class by asceticism."

Within Africa, Algeria is getting stronger and stronger because they avoid it to play football. Sad, Oblomov is no longer allowed to experience this...

Last Edited By: ctr Jan 21 14 10:48 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#58 [url]

Feb 2 14 11:49 AM

Brilliant result for Libya, but has there ever been a tournament-winning team with a worse overall record?

If you extend it to medal-winning teams, then Paraguay 2011 (0-5-1) instantly comes to mind...

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TheRoonBa

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#59 [url]

Feb 2 14 5:26 PM

Libya will lose 32 ranking points (552 -> 520) and possibly drop 6 places from 62nd to 68th. What a great reward for winning their first continental tournament.  The final victory over Ghana is not available in the ranking prognosis tool, so I don't know if this will improve their ranking a little.


In fact, 14 of the 16 teams at CHAN will see their ranking drop =- Ghana and Nigeria significantly (as would be expected).  Only Burundi and Zimbabwe will gain points from playing in the tournament.

Last Edited By: TheRoonBa Feb 2 14 5:37 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#60 [url]

Feb 2 14 6:34 PM

This all illustrates the pointlessness of the FIFA rankings, and to some extent CHAN. Perhaps Brunei will be number 1 soon, when everyone else has dropped enough points by actually playing games.

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