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TheRoonBa

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#21 [url]

Oct 18 13 10:52 PM

It's a common problem across all sports. The expectations of people like us are that everything should be accurate. But the people who have the jobs of getting things accurate are not experts in their field. Most of us on this forum who collect international results could do a much better job than the people who are actually paid to do so. But that will never happen, as those people won't want to lose their jobs and will never admit that they cannot do them properly.

In other sports, sometimes results are not even reported even for current events. There was a recent example of world championship qualifiers (i.e. the most important tournament in that sport) in volleyball (which proclaims itself to be the world's most popular sport) not being reported at all. I contacted a few federations to get the results (which of course were not official or verified), then the governing body copied and pasted my results from Wikipedia, even including formatting. And this is in 2013, in a popular sport, in the most important competition in that sport. Now the African governing body (CAVB) has decided it doesn't like the way I talk (i.e. I told them they should be doing better), and is not responding to my e-mails. However, they have no problem copying my results from Wikipedia. So I've contacted FIVB, the world governing body, and they've passed it back to CAVB. I've told them I will keep writing them e-mails until they do their job properly. As you can probably tell, people not reporting results is something that really annoys me. And they all react the same way to criticism (we are doing our best/you don't know how difficult it is/etc.). Basically, they are crap at their jobs.


I pointed out a mistake in one of their results as well, but they replied saying it was official.  The fact that 4-1 is an impossible result in volleyball didn't seem to matter.  When I told them this, they just ignored me.

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#22 [url]

Oct 19 13 9:58 AM

TheRoonBa wrote:
The fact that 4-1 is an impossible result in volleyball didn't seem to matter.  When I told them this, they just ignored me.
In championships matches such a result is impossible. In friendlies it can happen sometimes, recently I watched sporting results at teletext and read Dutch national volleyballtean won a friendly 4-0. Probably it was agreed to play at least a four set match, comparative with 3x35 or 3x40 minutes football matches. They could at least explain to you.

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#23 [url]

Oct 19 13 10:53 AM

TheRoonBa wrote:
There was a recent example of world championship qualifiers (i.e. the most important tournament in that sport) in volleyball (which proclaims itself to be the world's most popular sport) not being reported at all.

Not sure which is the most laughable part of that phrase...

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#24 [url]

Oct 19 13 6:31 PM

TheRoonBa wrote:
It's a common problem across all sports. The expectations of people like us are that everything should be accurate. But the people who have the jobs of getting things accurate are not experts in their field. Most of us on this forum who collect international results could do a much better job than the people who are actually paid to do so. But that will never happen, as those people won't want to lose their jobs and will never admit that they cannot do them properly.

In other sports, sometimes results are not even reported even for current events. There was a recent example of world championship qualifiers (i.e. the most important tournament in that sport) in volleyball (which proclaims itself to be the world's most popular sport) not being reported at all. I contacted a few federations to get the results (which of course were not official or verified), then the governing body copied and pasted my results from Wikipedia, even including formatting. And this is in 2013, in a popular sport, in the most important competition in that sport. Now the African governing body (CAVB) has decided it doesn't like the way I talk (i.e. I told them they should be doing better), and is not responding to my e-mails. However, they have no problem copying my results from Wikipedia. So I've contacted FIVB, the world governing body, and they've passed it back to CAVB. I've told them I will keep writing them e-mails until they do their job properly. As you can probably tell, people not reporting results is something that really annoys me. And they all react the same way to criticism (we are doing our best/you don't know how difficult it is/etc.). Basically, they are crap at their jobs.

That's the point! Finding out and collecting data can be quite difficult and imprecisions or mistakes are often "in ambush", but if I were them, I'd be very pleased when someone contacts me in order to correct the eventual errors. Instead, it seems that many of the most important organizations don't pay too much attention to the ones who try to help them.
Therefore, as a consequence, we have Hermanus Vrauwdeunt (a Dutch footballer born in 1915) playing for Feyenoord in 1970 (!!!), or Manuel Serra playing the game Újpest-Benfica 2-1 on November 30, 1960 (António Saraiva played instead, as Manuel Serra didn't travel to Hungary) or Félix Ruiz and Francisco Serena appearing for Real Madrid versus Anderlecht on March 9, 1966 (obviously they didn't, as Ramón Grosso and José Luis Veloso played that match).
Please note: I'm not saying that UEFA are incompetent, because, honestly, I don't think it. But I can't either assert that they are well-disposed to take into consideration the good suggestions.


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TheRoonBa

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#26 [url]

Oct 20 13 1:23 AM

Fast Midfielder wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:
The fact that 4-1 is an impossible result in volleyball didn't seem to matter.  When I told them this, they just ignored me.
In championships matches such a result is impossible. In friendlies it can happen sometimes, recently I watched sporting results at teletext and read Dutch national volleyballtean won a friendly 4-0. Probably it was agreed to play at least a four set match, comparative with 3x35 or 3x40 minutes football matches. They could at least explain to you.

I didn't know this.  In any case, this was a world championship qualifier, so 3 was the maximum number of sets.

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TheRoonBa

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#27 [url]

Oct 20 13 1:33 AM

mattsanger92 wrote:
TheRoonBa wrote:
There was a recent example of world championship qualifiers (i.e. the most important tournament in that sport) in volleyball (which proclaims itself to be the world's most popular sport) not being reported at all.

Not sure which is the most laughable part of that phrase...
I wouldn't have thought volleyball was that popular, but apparently 800 million people play volleyball at least once a week.

The FIVB also has 220 members, which is more than most (all?) other sports.

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#28 [url]

Oct 20 13 5:54 AM

I wouldn't have thought volleyball was that popular, but apparently 800 million people play volleyball at least once a week.

The FIVB also has 220 members, which is more than most (all?) other sports.


Yup, they have the likes of Monaco, Gibraltar, Kiribati, Nauru, Guadeloupe, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, Saba as members.. not sure how active they are though!

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#29 [url]

Oct 20 13 8:08 AM

TheRoonBa wrote:

I wouldn't have thought volleyball was that popular, but apparently 800 million people play volleyball at least once a week.



How many of them are playing beach volleyball?

However, I remember in the 1970s and 1980s at school (in Holland) we regularly played volleyball as a part of gymnastics.

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#30 [url]

Oct 20 13 8:57 AM

As this thread is about Jamaica, may I cite an autoreferencial anecdote? When I created the list about all the players and coaches who have won the European Cup/UEFA Champions League, I found some doubts about the formidable champion Vivian "Viv" Anderson, an English player of Jamaican origins. Some sources claim he was born on August 29, 1956, while other ones refer July 29, 1956. So I contacted him through his excellent website, and he answered me directly himself. Legend sHa_okay.gif!

   

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#31 [url]

Nov 6 13 7:25 AM

So he played Barack Obama to your Donald Trump...

800 million people playing volleyball each week - that is clearly nonsense.  Do 800 million people even know what volleyball is?

> Well sometimes even the people who care about statistics get it wrong. This file at RSSSF is complete nonsense! http://www.rsssf.com/tablesc/chevallier.html

Kinder to elaborate.  Everyone's data has mistakes because it relies on other sources which made them or copied from mistaken sources.  I can cite your African Nations Cup dates etc.

Last Edited By: nfm24 Nov 6 13 7:28 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#32 [url]

Nov 7 13 9:50 AM

nfm24 wrote:
So he played Barack Obama to your Donald Trump...

Yeah, not to mention all the times I took a look at the original passports of many champions!!

I wouldn't want that someone begins thinking I'm a Datagate's member...!

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TheRoonBa

Posts: 5,444 Site Admin

#34 [url]

Mar 1 14 8:25 PM

Usually better to go direct to the FA sites (or Facebook or Twitter) for information.  CFU and CONCACAF get their information second hand.

St. Lucia. At the Beausejour Cricket Stadium, Gros Islet.

1620467_779092235443357_1361377768_n.jpg



Fans ! We will no longer play Grenada on March 5th we will play St. Lucia instead

Last Edited By: TheRoonBa Mar 1 14 8:29 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#35 [url]

Mar 21 14 10:35 AM

The following article is definitely interesting. The source is Le Signore del Mondial 98, an insert published by the magazine Guerin Sportivo in 1998.

The picture on the right refers to the tournée of the Jamaican National team in Haiti in 1925!

28tchn7.jpg

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#37 [url]

Mar 25 14 10:25 AM

nfm24 wrote:
The article seems to have confused Allan Cole with Bob Marley.

Yes, in fact Guerin Sportivo number 49, from 1997, publishes a short interview with Allan "Skill" Cole. He played for Naútico, in Brazil, where he was an appreciated assist-man. He also played and coached in Ethiopia.

23mllvm.jpg





Here some historic pictures about Jamaica-Mexico 0-0, from November 16, 1997. Thanks to this result, Jamaica conquered the arithmetical qualification for the 1998 World Cup.



14cxyea.jpg

15xqoop.jpg




2zdt3mb.jpg
 
x0qstk.jpg

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#38 [url]

Apr 22 14 12:14 AM

1974-04-28 Jamaica All-Stars vs Bermuda NT 3-2.
Should perhaps be "A" match? Jamaica featured regulars such as Milverton Brooks, Leonard Mason, Herbert Gordon, Howard Bell and others. Full squad: http://gleaner.newspaperarchive.com/kingston-gleaner/1974-04-28/page-19

Bermuda was on a 5 match tour which also included 0-5 vs Jamaica Youth team, 1-2 vs Boys' Town, 1-1 vs Santos and 0-2 vs Jamaica Olympic team; April 26th. Full squad: http://gleaner.newspaperarchive.com/kingston-gleaner/1974-04-25/page-12

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#40 [url]

Apr 22 14 1:00 AM

There were quite a lot of trips like this and it was not unusual that the teams, particularly in Jamaica, had a label such as "Invitational XI" or All-Stars etc. Often this was because the match was funded or even arranged by a third party rather than the national FA. For example: http://www.rsssf.com/tablesk/ksafaberm71.html
On other occasions it was because they wanted to include some (ex)professionals e.g. from the US leagues, who weren't often used in competitive matches. Identifying the reason is not always clear.

How to classify the matches is up to you. Basing it on players used is one way, not everyone agrees of course.

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