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Mar 18 13 5:20 PM

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On 06-10-1956 a match Berlin 2-6 Moscow was played. Unfortunately there are no complete line ups available, so we don't know if actually East-German and USSR NT played, as both NT's regularly have been labelled as Berlin and Moscow teams even though players from other citiies participated and the teams shows being (quite) equal to the NT.

On 11-05-1958 a match USSR 4-0 East-Germany  was played, but labelled as a Moscow v Berlin match. But watch the USSR team photo (scroll down)  The East-German ("Berlin") line up shows players are from all over the country
In March 1960 USSR team toured in East-Germany and played following matches which should be full A-international matches:
04-03-1960 East-Germany 1-2 USSR
06-03-1960 East-Germany 1-0 USSR
09-03-1960 East-Germany 1-2 USSR (as Moscow XI but de facto USSR NT)
12-03-1960 East-Germany (Berlin) 1-1 USSR (B?)
USSR played with full NT, the team on 6 March was a bit experimental one. As far as I could find the East-German team of 12 March fielded Berlin based players only. The site shows that match is labelled as Berlin - USSR 2, which implies USSR fielded a B-team. However, all players were drawn from the same selection and several USSR-players also were fielded in the other matches.

Last Edited By: Fast Midfielder Jan 3 14 7:35 AM. Edited 8 times

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#6 [url]

Dec 27 13 7:00 AM

One of my sitemates has an German paper with the pre-match article (two days before the match on 06-10-1956). I quote from it:

"Nach den Angaben der beiden verantwortlichen Stadttrainer Harald Seeger und Kurt Hallex werden der Moskauer Elf dann folgende Spieler gegenüberstehen: Spickenagel; Skaba, Eilitz, Marotzke; Mühlbächer, Unger; Wirth, Aßmy, Schröter, Maschke, Matzen. In Reserve stehen. Klemm, Kiupel, Hähnert und Meyer."

There were six of Dynamo Berlin, eight of Vorwärts Berlin, and Hähnert (Horst? But he was from West (!) Berlin's Motor).

Also, Soviet squad (all Moscow-based) was mentioned in the article: Boris Razinski, Anatoli Porkhunov, Anatoli Bashashkin, Mikhail Perevalov, József Becza, Aleksandr T. Petrov, Vladimir Agapov, Valentin Ivanov, Eduard Streltsov, Yuri Beliayev, Valentin Yemyshev.

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#7 [url]

Dec 28 13 4:21 AM

6-10-1956 Walter-Ulbricht-Stadion, 45000
East Berlin 2-6 Moskva
Goals: Wirth 38' 75' / Ivanov 1' 52', Belyayev 19' 23', Streltsov 35', Agapov 55'
East Berlin: Spickenagel; Skaba, Eilitz, Marotzke; Mühlbächer (Meyer 46'), Unger; Wirth, Aßmy, Schröter, Maschke, Matzen.
Moskva: Razinski (Ivakin 65'); Porkhunov, Bashashkin, Perevalov (Krutikov 46'); Becza, Petrov; Agapov (Fyodorov 63'), Ivanov, Streltsov, Belyayev, Yemyshev.
Ref: Aleksandrowicz (Poland)
Coaches: Harald Seeger / Pinalchev

Squad called by Harald Seeger for match:
Goalkeepers: Spickenagel (ZSK Vorwärts), Klemm (SC Dynamo)
Defenders: Eilitz, Marotzke, Kiupel (all Vorwärts), Schoen, Skaba (both SC Dynamo)
Midfield: Unger (Vorwärts), Mühlbächer (SC Dynamo), Hähnert (SC Motor)
Forwards: Aßmy, Wirth, Meyer (Vorwärts), Schröter, Matzen, Maschke (all SC Dynamo), Klebsch (Lichtenberg 47).

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#9 [url]

Dec 28 13 10:19 AM

Neil, do you remember the source of this info? If you have a copy of the article it would be grateful. Thank you.

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#10 [url]

Dec 29 13 5:44 PM

It's from "Neues Deutschland". Various East German newspapers are archived online, and also keyword searchable ;-)
See the post here by Silvermane : http://roonba.fr.yuku.com/reply/24941/Neues-Deutschland-archive#reply-24941
You can probably save all the articles you want. Let me know if you need any assistance.
Still, I would assume that "FuWo" magazine is the best source for East Germany.  Some issues are online in various places, I'm not sure if everything is.

If I may ask a favour in return: can you find the missing match played by Poland on its Soviet visit in July 1969? Or any matches of U.A.R. in the same period? And any details of the games?
http://roonba.fr.yuku.com/reply/26697/Chile#reply-26697

Last Edited By: nfm24 Dec 29 13 5:46 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#12 [url]

Dec 30 13 12:07 AM

It's clear that the 1956 match was genuinely between Berlin and Moscow, and those were not just false labels for an unofficial international match. The teams were genuine city selections.

In contrast, 1958 was in reality an international match between two full national teams. In East German newspapers, the match was never mentioned as "Berlin vs Moscow", just as a "sparring match" or "unofficial match" of the national teams. They were certainly not city selections.

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#13 [url]

Dec 30 13 12:08 AM

TovKirov wrote:
That's great! We've removed some blank spots immediately. Thank you.
I've asked your question to guys which have sports paper archives.

No problem, it's a good resource which needs to be harvested ;-)  I hope one day similar resources will become available for other countries.

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#14 [url]

Dec 30 13 9:22 AM

nfm24 wrote:

In contrast, 1958 was in reality an international match between two full national teams. In East German newspapers, the match was never mentioned as "Berlin vs Moscow", just as a "sparring match" or "unofficial match" of the national teams. They were certainly not city selections.

The team photo shows players worn shirts with subscription CCCP (SSSR). According to Google translator the remarks say it was the NT's last preparation, but as Google translations are not perfect one of the Russians can give a good translation.

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#15 [url]

Jan 2 14 5:36 PM

Yes I read that in your first post, but there is no CCCP on the shirts according to the pictures here: http://russia-matches.ucoz.ru/publ/matchi/1958/sssr_moskva_gdr_berlin_40/29-1-0-232
Maybe the permian website picture is from a different game?

In the 1958 match, the "Moscow" team had only one player (Voynov of Dinamo Kiev) from clubs outside Moscow. But this was simply due to the strength of the Moscow clubs. It was almost the same team (10 of 11) that played 7 days later vs England. Anyhow, I suppose it is not drastically misleading to label the team as a Moscow selection. However, the "Berlin" team was from all over the DDR. Only three of the 11 players were from Berlin clubs:
Thiele (SC Wismut Karl-Marx-Stadt), Dorner (TSC Oberschöneweide Berlin), K.Zapf (SC Empor Rostock), Franke (SC Turbine Erfurt), Unger (ASK Vorwärts Berlin), Wolf (SC Wismut Karl-Marx-Stadt), H.Müller (SC Motor Jena), Manfred Kaiser (SC Wismut Karl-Marx-Stadt), Willy Tröger (SC Wismut Karl-Marx-Stadt), Schröter (SC Dynamo Berlin), Klingbiel (Lokomotive Stendal).

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#16 [url]

Jan 2 14 5:43 PM

nfm24 wrote:
Yes I read that in your first post, but there is no CCCP on the shirts according to the pictures here: http://russia-matches.ucoz.ru/publ/matchi/1958/sssr_moskva_gdr_berlin_40/29-1-0-232
Maybe the permian website picture is from a different game?

I won't be surprised. The match now is dated 11-05-1958 (Sunday) at the permian site, but I remember previously the match was dated 14-05-1958 (Wednesday).

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#17 [url]

Jan 2 14 8:34 PM

Fast Midfielder wrote:
In March 1960 USSR team toured in East-Germany and played following matches which should be full A-international matches:
04-03-1960 East-Germany 1-2 USSR
06-03-1960 East-Germany 1-0 USSR
09-03-1960 East-Germany 1-2 USSR (as Moscow XI but de facto USSR NT)
12-03-1960 East-Germany (Berlin) 1-1 USSR (B?)
The East German newspapers reported their teams as simply DDR-Auswahl except for the final game, which was genuinely an East Berlin selection. In fact a combination of the two clubs Vorwarts and Dynamo.  USSR was labelled as Combined Clubs in its own reports.  In German reports simply as the national team on a training/practice camp.

In the matches on 4th and 9th March both sides used their strongest elevens.  For the 6th March, both sides fielded the reserves of their squads.
On 12th March, USSR again fielded its reserves.

So depending on your view, you can say that the first three games in 1960 were unofficial internationals between full national teams.

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#18 [url]

Jan 3 14 5:16 PM

In April 1958 there was another similar match, this time between Hungary's full national team (labelled as "Budapest") vs East Berlin (on this occasion, a genuine Berlin selection with no outsiders).

http://www.magyarfutball.hu/hu/merkozes/3443

Neues Deutschland, Thur 10 Apr 1958
Preparing for the World Cup, on Wednesday evening before 20000 spectators in Budapest's MTK Stadion, the Hungarian National selection faced a Berlin city selection, and won 3-0.
Halftime 2-0. Goals: Tichy x2, Sandor
The hosts, who played as "Budapest City selection"...
Hungary: Grosics; Matrai, Sipos, Szigeti; Bozsik, Kotasz; Sandor (Budai), Hidegkuti (Orosz), Tichy, Monostori II, Fenyvesi (Molnar).
Berlin: Spickenagel (Marquardt); Heine, Kiupel, Skaba; Maschke (Unger), Mühlbächer (Reichelt); Aßmy, Schröter, Fritzsche, Meyer (Bley), Wirth.


In the Hungary team, three players from clubs outside Budapest:
Grosics (Tatabanya)
Szigeti (Diosgyori)
Monostori (Dorogi)

The Berlin players:
Spickenagel (ASK Vorwärts Berlin)
Marquardt (SC Dynamo Berlin)
Heine (Dynamo)
Kiupel (Vorwärts)
Skaba (Dynamo)
Maschke (Dynamo)
Unger (Vorwärts)
Mühlbächer (Dynamo)
Reichelt (Vorwärts)
Aßmy (Vorwärts)
Schröter (Dynamo)
Fritzsche (Vorwärts)
Meyer (Vorwärts)
Bley (Dynamo)
Wirth (Vorwärts).

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