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Aug 17 13 10:17 PM

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The match 25 Sep 1921 is "A" at fifa.com but the friendly  02 Oct 1921 isn't. What is the exact status of these matches? Argentina represented by the dissident association, but why only one match recognised by fifa?

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#2 [url]

Aug 18 13 2:40 PM

I also noticed some Argentinian sites write date for the 2nd match as 01 Oct 1921. Argentina played the first match of SAC on the same day and also used a couple of players listed in the match vs Chile. Either lineups are wrong or the date is as they couldn't have used the same players obviously...

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#3 [url]

Aug 18 13 11:23 PM

Perhaps it's related to the recent protocol released (regarding CHAN) which does not allow two A matches on one day. You should check if there are still other examples of "two on one day". I would do it myself but it's late and I can't be bothered ;-p

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#5 [url]

Aug 19 13 7:53 AM

nfm24 wrote:
Perhaps it's related to the recent protocol released (regarding CHAN) which does not allow two A matches on one day. You should check if there are still other examples of "two on one day". I would do it myself but it's late and I can't be bothered ;-p

Even on FIFA website it is mentioned countries as i.e. Germany (1935-41), Austria (1935), Poland (1932-1938) played two official A-matches on the very same day on different locations. Also the matches England played against Iceland on 02-06-1982 in Reykjavík and Finland (the next day; in Helsinki) are both listed even though England played with two different teams.

On FIFA list even three internationals played by Sweden on 28-09-1930 are listed as well as matches played during the 1938 World Cup in both France and Scandinavia in the very same period.

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TheRoonBa

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#6 [url]

Aug 20 13 1:12 AM

Again, we are back to the same problem - forget FIFA. It doesn't matter what they consider as official. They have proved that they cannot follow their own rules, and they keep changing them without telling anyone. Also, they cannot keep a proper list of A matches. Many perfectly acceptable 'A' matches in Africa, for example, are not recognised by FIFA simply because they cannot be bothered looking at their own files in their own library. If you want a decent list of international matches, eliminate FIFA from the equation.

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#7 [url]

Aug 20 13 6:24 AM

You are right. That's the reason I gave the examples mentioned at #5. Besides in the past I noticed the status of some matches changed contineously at the FIFA list.

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#8 [url]

Aug 20 13 10:36 AM

Indeed, but I have a note from a few years ago that both these Chile matches were on FIFA's list previously. So I'd be interested to know why one was removed.
And also in the 24 hours travel issue...

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#9 [url]

Aug 20 13 5:53 PM

Yes the date isn't consistant. As I understand, the 2nd match was played in Santiago. I've seen both 01 Oct 1921 and 02 Oct 1921 in Argentina web sources. However, solofutbol.cl reports this match as played 12 Oct 1921 and played in Buenos Aires! Since Copa America was played in Buenos Aires it would explain how this was possible..

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#10 [url]

Aug 20 13 8:53 PM

According to info received, there was no overlap in the Argentina teams.

CHILE 1
Guillermo Bernal, Víctor Zavala, Ulises Poirier, Humberto Elgueta, Víctor Toro, Enrique Teuche, Guillermo Saavedra, Juan Legarreta, Eugenio Fuentes, Alfredo France, Pardo. DT: Juan Carlos Bertone
ARGENTINA 1
Emilio Fernández -4/Gimnasia Esgrima La Plata-, G. Pérez -1/San Isidro-, Humberto Recanatini -5/Sp. Almagro-, Ernesto Mattozzi -23/Estudiantil Porteño-, Cándido García -6/River Plate-, Luis Célico -2/Atlanta-, Adolfo Heissinger -8/Tigre-, Albérico Zabaleta -3/Racing-, Gerardo Caldás -2/Defensores de Belgrano-, Manuel Pardal -2/Platense-.
Jugado el 2 de octubre de 1921, en el campo de deportes de Ñuñoa, Santiago, Chile
Motivo: Amistoso Internacional
GOLES: 70’ Eugenio Fuentes (CHI), 81’ Cándido García (ARG)
Arbitro: Carlos Fanta (Chile). Público: 15000
Nota: Seleccionado de la Asociación Amateur


ARGENTINA 1
Américo Tesoriere -5/Sportivo del Norte-, Adolfo Celli -4/Newell’s Old Boys-, Florindo Bearzotti -6/Belgrano Rosario-, Alfredo López -4/Boca Jrs-, Manuel Dellavalle -5/Belgrano de Córdoba-, Emilio Solari -1/Nueva Chicago-, Pedro Fournol “Calomino” -29/Boca Jrs.-, Julio Libonatti -9/Newell’s Old Boys-, Gabino Sosa -1/Central Córdoba, Rosario-, Raúl Echeverria -5/Estudiantes La Plata-, Jaime Chavín -4/Huracán-.
BRASIL 0
Julio “Kunz” Filho, Lair Paulo “Barata” Ribeiro, José De Almeida Netto “Telefone”, Artur Antunes de Moraes e Castro “Lais”, Alfredo Silva “Alfredinho”, Antônio “Dino” Galväo Bueno, José Carlos Guimaraes “Zezé”, Anníbal Médicis “Candiota”, Claudionor Gonçalves Da Silva “Nonô”, Ernesto Duarte “Machado” Da Silva, “Orlando” Moreira Torres.
Jugado el 2 de octubre de 1921, en el Estadio de Sportivo Barracas, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Motivo: Torneo Sudamericano 1921
GOLES: 27’ Julio Libonatti (ARG)
Arbitro: Ricardo Vallarino, (Uruguay) - Asistentes: Manuel Fleitas Solich (Paraguay) y Daniel Schaerrer (Paraguay)
Público: 25000
Nota: Seleccionado de la Asociación Argentina (Afiliado a FIFA)

Data from Eduardo Cantaro's work.

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#11 [url]

Aug 21 13 3:32 PM

nfm24 wrote:
According to info received, there was no overlap in the Argentina teams.

CHILE 1
Guillermo Bernal, Víctor Zavala, Ulises Poirier, Humberto Elgueta, Víctor Toro, Enrique Teuche, Guillermo Saavedra, Juan Legarreta, Eugenio Fuentes, Alfredo France, Pardo. DT: Juan Carlos Bertone
ARGENTINA 1
Emilio Fernández -4/Gimnasia Esgrima La Plata-, G. Pérez -1/San Isidro-, Humberto Recanatini -5/Sp. Almagro-, Ernesto Mattozzi -23/Estudiantil Porteño-, Cándido García -6/River Plate-, Luis Célico -2/Atlanta-, Adolfo Heissinger -8/Tigre-, Albérico Zabaleta -3/Racing-, Gerardo Caldás -2/Defensores de Belgrano-, Manuel Pardal -2/Platense-.
Jugado el 2 de octubre de 1921, en el campo de deportes de Ñuñoa, Santiago, Chile
Motivo: Amistoso Internacional
GOLES: 70’ Eugenio Fuentes (CHI), 81’ Cándido García (ARG)
Arbitro: Carlos Fanta (Chile). Público: 15000
Nota: Seleccionado de la Asociación Amateur




I see only 10 players for Argentina...
Eugenio Fuentes; possibly Eufelio Fuentes? No Eugenio Fuentes in solofutbol.cl database.

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#12 [url]

Aug 21 13 6:20 PM

Another match not on FIFA list; 03/12/1923 Argentina - Chile 6-0. Also listed as part of Copa Confraternidad. Argentina again represented by Asociación Amateur. Match however listed as the 28th official for Chile.
Lineup posted at http://www.11v11.com/matches/argentina-v-chile-03-december-1923-223382/ does not seem to be right. One C. Giulidori listed on some Argentine pages does not appear there.
César Giulidori
Disputó 3 partidos:
2 de diciembre de 1923, Argentina 6 -Chile 0. Amistoso.
9 de julio de 1925, Argentina 1 -Paraguay 1. Copa Chevallier Boutell.
12 de julio de 1925, Paraguay 1 -Argentina 1. Copa Chevallier Boutell.

www.soccer-db.info - football internationals

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#14 [url]

Sep 3 13 9:09 AM

Although the information are very fragmentary or missing, I've found out something more.

SDb wrote:
nfm24 wrote:
According to info received, there was no overlap in the Argentina teams.

CHILE 1
Guillermo Bernal, Víctor Zavala, Ulises Poirier, Humberto Elgueta, Víctor Toro, Enrique Teuche, Guillermo Saavedra, Juan Legarreta, Eugenio Fuentes, Alfredo France, Pardo. DT: Juan Carlos Bertone
ARGENTINA 1
Emilio Fernández -4/Gimnasia Esgrima La Plata-, G. Pérez -1/San Isidro-, Humberto Recanatini -5/Sp. Almagro-, Ernesto Mattozzi -23/Estudiantil Porteño-, Cándido García -6/River Plate-, Luis Célico -2/Atlanta-, Adolfo Heissinger -8/Tigre-, Albérico Zabaleta -3/Racing-, Gerardo Caldás -2/Defensores de Belgrano-, Manuel Pardal -2/Platense-.
Jugado el 2 de octubre de 1921, en el campo de deportes de Ñuñoa, Santiago, Chile
Motivo: Amistoso Internacional
GOLES: 70’ Eugenio Fuentes (CHI), 81’ Cándido García (ARG)
Arbitro: Carlos Fanta (Chile). Público: 15000
Nota: Seleccionado de la Asociación Amateur




I see only 10 players for Argentina...
Eugenio Fuentes; possibly Eufelio Fuentes? No Eugenio Fuentes in solofutbol.cl database.

I can confirm that the exact date was October 2, 1921, as the following book published by AFA (at page 196) reports the same date. Unfortunately they don't report the detailed line-ups, but at page 200, there is the full Argentinean squad that participated in the Chilean tournée.


SDb wrote:

Another match not on FIFA list; 03/12/1923 Argentina - Chile 6-0. Also listed as part of Copa Confraternidad. Argentina again represented by Asociación Amateur. Match however listed as the 28th official for Chile.
Lineup posted at http://www.11v11.com/matches/argentina-v-chile-03-december-1923-223382/ does not seem to be right. One C. Giulidori listed on some Argentine pages does not appear there.
César Giulidori
Disputó 3 partidos:
2 de diciembre de 1923, Argentina 6 -Chile 0. Amistoso.
9 de julio de 1925, Argentina 1 -Paraguay 1. Copa Chevallier Boutell.
12 de julio de 1925, Paraguay 1 -Argentina 1. Copa Chevallier Boutell.
As to Argentina-Chile 6-0 from December 2, 1923, the following blog reports the Argentinean line-up with the presence of César Giulidori.
Argentina: Crocce, Giulidori, Van Kamenade, Mattozzi, C. García, Simmons, N. Perinetti, Anunziatta, Valente, J. Fortunato y Pardal.
Chile: Chinchón, Orellana, Cárdenas, De la Fuente, Toro, Calderón, Geldes, Teuche, Leiva, Moreno y Olguín.

Note that on the very same day, another Argentinean team faced Brazil for Copa Confraternidad and lost 2-0. The Brazilian newsapaer Folha de São Paulo from December 3, 1923 reports some details about this game.

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