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#161 [url]

Feb 9 15 3:11 PM

pieter wrote:

they waited for the penaltys since the first minute


Not the best strategy for Ghana, considering their relations with penalty shoot-outs:

Africa Cup of Nations final in 1992;
World Cup quarterfinal in 2010;
Africa Cup of Nations semifinal in 2013;
CHAN final in 2014;
and now the 2015 Africa Cup of Nations final...


Yaya Touré and Salomon Kalou of Ivory Coast become respectively the 7th and the 8th player to lift both the Africa Cup of Nations and the UEFA Champions League after:

Rabah Madjer (Porto 1986/87 and Algeria 1990);
Abedi Pelé "Ayew" (Olympique de Marseille 1992/93 and Ghana 1982);
Finidi George (Ajax 1994/95 and Nigeria 1994);
Samuel Eto'o (Barcelona 2005/06, 2008/09, Inter 2009/10 inter.gif and Cameroon 2000, 2002);
Geremi (Real Madrid 1999/00, 2001/02 and Cameroon 2000, 2002);
John Obi Mikel (Chelsea 2011/12 and Nigeria 2013).



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#162 [url]

Feb 9 15 6:22 PM

I didn't like Ivory Coast's team much before this game, and I certainly like it less now. Lethargic boring football despite having in principle exciting players. We can make an allowance for heat, conditions etc, but even so, as Piet says, Ivory Coast was happy to sit with practically a 5-4-1 and just hoof the ball over for "Gervinho" to chase. Also both teams used a substitution for the sole purpose of replacing a scared player who refused to take a penalty. Those substitutions could have been used to positively affect the game. If "Gervinho" is too scared to take a penalty, he should (a) feign injury or get himself sent off in the 119th minute, or (b) not be selected in the first place. A general arrogant air about their squad which has certainly not been earned and is not justified even after winning this event. Giving their players ridiculous Brazilian-style nicknames ON THEIR SHIRTS... "Gervinho", "Kalhuno", and worst Zokora had "Maestro" on his shirt.

And Barry... if this is the way penalty shootouts are going, then they need to be eradicated. Disgusting. At least with tossing a coin nobody is going to feign thumb injuries before the toss, and then sprint away celebrating like a hero, when really you are a cheat. Horrible day for African football, considering also the events in Egypt.

There were no outstanding teams, Ghana were perhaps the best in moments but still weren't that good and weren't better than in the World Cup. The Asian Cup was better than this and had a much better end.

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#163 [url]

Feb 9 15 7:44 PM

nfm24 wrote:
Giving their players ridiculous Brazilian-style nicknames ON THEIR SHIRTS... "Gervinho", "Kalhuno", and worst Zokora had "Maestro" on his shirt.

"Maestro" Zokora is the worst nickname ever invented in the African football since "Ten Ton Gallons" of Swaziland...

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#166 [url]

Feb 9 15 8:34 PM

Luca wrote:
Imagine what a joy for Kolo Touré, Siaka Tiéné and "Copa". They débuted for Ivory Coast in 2000 and now, after 15 years and a lot of disappointments, they are champions!
And the bitter-sweetness for Didier Drogba, first tournament after his retirement. Dark humour and all that...

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#167 [url]

Feb 9 15 8:58 PM

mattsanger92 wrote:
Luca wrote:
Imagine what a joy for Kolo Touré, Siaka Tiéné and "Copa". They débuted for Ivory Coast in 2000 and now, after 15 years and a lot of disappointments, they are champions!
And the bitter-sweetness for Didier Drogba, first tournament after his retirement. Dark humour and all that...

Just like Michael Laudrup in 1992... He refused to take part in the European Championship and Denmark won...!

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#168 [url]

Feb 9 15 11:37 PM

Well, Drogba's play acting showed the way for Barry to win the tournament, so at least he contributed in some way.

I propose the following amendments:
1. Any player lying on the floor "injured" for more than 10 seconds must be substituted for his own "safety". If no subs remain, too bad.
2. Penalty shootouts involve all 11 players, not 5.

I'd also like to introduce a rule speeding up free-kicks near the box. Every time there is a foul (or dive) around the box, it seems more than 60 seconds while the referee arranges the players, stops any shoving, draws the line, etc. There should be a way of stopping this delay to the game.

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#169 [url]

Feb 10 15 6:47 PM

In fairness to the second amendment, while I think 5 is still the way to go, of all the penalty shoot-outs I've seen since the World Cup only the DRC v EQG one (and an Auckland City game) hasn't seen both teams use all available players...

Barry probably could have won it purely on form, Razak did not take his chances to 'be a hero', as the narrative says. What confused me though was Barry killing time before he was up to take the kick, can't be good for the psyche of most people...

The extra-time substitutions - I don't think Gyan is as much in the wrong as the commentators claimed when he came off. I remember after a different tournament that Gyan publicly swore off ever taking a penalty (or maybe just shoot-out penalties) again (can't remember the full details, think it was either avoiding more heartbreak and/or stopping his mother from having a heart attack). That being said, his skill at penalties and being one of the main 5 instead of one of the missers could well have won his team the tournament in hindsight... not to mention captain's responsibility, etc....

But Gervinho definitely much worse, only the 1 traumatic penalty miss for him, and as far as I'm aware no public pre-tournament pact of avoidance. And in the shoot-out itself, there's face in hands for "can't look"... and then there's sitting in a deck chair facing away from the dugout while your team-mates decide the tournament smiley: tired. What's another word for kitten? smiley: wink

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#170 [url]

Feb 10 15 7:12 PM

Either way, Barry was dictating the events with his acting. There's killing time (e.g. holding the ball near the corner flag) and there's blatant deceitful cheating (diving or feigning injury). We could say something simple like "feigning injury = yellow card" but this is impractical and can't be proven, so any sort of "crying wolf" rule wouldn't work. The health and safety rule 1 above is preferable.

Anyway, separate from his acting, Barry's save from Razak should have been a retake anyway as he was so far off his line. More cheating. This happens all the time in shootouts. If referees don't punish cheating, we'll see more and more of this crap. They could easily use the TV goal-line replay system (where available) to check this. In fact just ordinary TV would do. The fact that in 2015, major finals are still being decided by blatant and clearly discernible cheating, is highly depressing. Cheats and crooks are rewarded. Perhaps it's just life.

Gervinho - remember the 2013 final, he was trying to get out of having to take the penalty beforehand. He was clearly terrified of the mere prospect of being in the situation. That he missed it just reinforced it of course. But it's one thing to be a bit of a chicken, and another thing to be so affected that you actually have to be removed from the match. Why not just fake injury? After all, it would have been a fitting preview of Barry's antics later on.

I still don't like penalties as the final decision maker. The consequences of missing a penalty aren't so different from missing an easy chance during the main match. But the circumstances are very different. Long buildup, focus, pressure, fear etc. It's not really football. And it's a very individual moment in a game supposed to be for teams.
Play 90 minutes, use penalties to generate an artificial imbalance (0.5 goal), and then play 30 minutes extra time.

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#171 [url]

Feb 10 15 7:38 PM

Note that if Gervinho was still on the field after 120', and only feigned injury when the shootout had begun, he could actually gain a slight advantage for his team, because in that scenario Ghana would *not* be allowed to pick one of their players to exclude. Ivory would have 10, Ghana 11. That is a potential advantage (assuming Gervinho would have missed, i.e. is the worst penalty taker on his team) if the shootout gets tol the 11th round.
Whereas, if Gervinho fakes injury at 119' and there are no more subs, then Ghana are permitted to choose any one player to exclude, so 10 v 10 in the shootout.

In general, if your goalkeeper is a good penalty taker then it is perhaps to your team's advantage if all your crap penalty takers suddenly feign injury just after the shootout begins, as then they don't have to take part at all and you have a far stronger team for the shootout if it goes beyond 5 rounds. Of course, the opposition could do the same. On the other hand, if your goalkeeper is a terrible penalty taker then this is a disadvantage as he will appear sooner in the order.

Bearing in how cynical footballers sometimes can be, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this happening before.
Just to make it easy for them : rank your 11 players in order of penalty proficiency, and tell everybody ranked below the goalkeeper to be "injured".

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#172 [url]

Feb 10 15 7:42 PM

Doesn't the association of words "African goalkeeper" "antics" and "penalty shoot-outs" make you remember a legendary episode from 1984... smiley: wink?




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#173 [url]

Feb 10 15 7:47 PM

nfm24 wrote:
rank your 11 players in order of penalty proficiency, and tell everybody ranked below the goalkeeper to be "injured".

I look forward to Zambia's next shootout.  Just Mweene on his own.

Caveat: this assumes the referee knows the rules...

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TheRoonBa

Posts: 5,423 Site Admin

#174 [url]

Feb 10 15 11:53 PM

Instead of penalties from the current penalty spot, what about taking them from the halfway line, with no goalkeeper? Or from behind the halfway line, at the edge of the centre circle? At least that way it's all about the penalty takers and goalkeepers can't cheat or put the taker off.

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#177 [url]

Feb 12 15 2:33 AM

Or just a "who can hoof it the furthest". Suddenly the big horse-like centre-halves become the stars, instead of the fall guys in shootouts.

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