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Aug 14 16 1:58 AM

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Does anyone know where I can find qualification games for old Olympic games? It seems as though Wikipedia and FIFA don't have a complete listing of these.

Last Edited By: abramjones Aug 14 16 2:02 AM. Edited 1 time

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#5 [url]

Aug 16 16 6:03 PM

Havelange was also a sportsman when he was young, he made FIFA what is is today with chances for small and poor countries.....his father was Belgian
let us think positive....

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#6 [url]

Aug 16 16 8:43 PM

nfm24 wrote:
The man was a serial crook, associating himself with the worst dictators and mafia types around the world.
I know what you mean, just pointing out the irony that you brought him up a few hours before his death...

Agree with Pieter though that the outcome for small countries from some of the things he did puts him into a more of a grey area... probably a dark shade of grey but still...

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#7 [url]

Aug 16 16 10:25 PM

Yes I agree, he made FIFA what it is today. A disgrace. Booooooo!

Giving funds and more World Cup places for small countries is positive, yes, but why did he do that? Because a vote from Swaziland is the same as a vote from France. Jack Warner and his colleagues followed exactly in his footsteps, bumping up small Caribbean FAs to outvote the "bigger" countries and line his own pockets.

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#9 [url]

Aug 17 16 11:11 AM

I guess what Neil is trying to say is that the positive aspects are just a by-product of the primary self-aggrandising intentions. It is incidental/lucky that there were positive aspects.

Havelange was probably not thinking "how wonderful if Swaziland could have an equal vote in FIFA elections and have an equal opportunity to compete in FIFA competitions". He was thinking of "how can I get another vote for me?".

To make an analogy - Hitler united a large proportion of the German population (positive?), but his intention was not to unite his people for the sake of having a nice Germany for everyone to live in - it was a necessary action to fulfil his self-aggrandising plan. Likewise, Havelange brought more countries into FIFA (uniting the world under one footballing umbrella?), but it was also a necessary action to get more votes for him.

It's not always appropriate to focus only on the positives.  Especially if they are tainted.

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#10 [url]

Aug 17 16 11:30 AM

I do not focus only on the positives, the negatives were the only aspects mentioned on this forum, so I tried to put the positives in the spotlights
and it seems not fair to compare Havelange with Hitler ....

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#11 [url]

Aug 18 16 11:28 PM

Yes it's important to remember that things were not great before Havelange. He exploited a mess that grew during the Rous era. Dozens of African countries had become independent and FIFA membership rose dramatically - Rous and co were slow to react and assist. At this time FIFA was basically like a gentleman's country club, and African FAs had to pay hundreds of Swiss francs per years to remain members, with little tangible "reward" other than the right to say they were members. Compare this to the massive handouts and coaching assistance etc provided by FIFA in later years. This was the biggest benefit of the Havelange exploitation of the game. But let us also remember that he was corrupt from the beginning - many votes in Havelange's election in 1974 were bought with corrupt payments of Adidas money.

Yes, FIFA did need a kick up the ass before Havelange.  As Piet says, 1966 alienated much of Africa and Asia due to under representation, but also South America due to perceived referee bias. South American FAs were already considering exiting FIFA and forming a breakway group before Havelange was elected. Rous's backing of Taiwan and to some extent Israel, and his dabbling with South Africa were also vote losers. So things had to chance, and  anybody clever with an alternative vision (especially one involving $$$$$$) had ready support. Football was being undersold and was ripe to be milked by big sponsors and TV. With Havelange as leader, it was actually Blatter who oversaw a lot of the programmes to pump money into Africa etc. And it was all the same tactics which kept working for Blatter even up to his last election.

Last Edited By: nfm24 Aug 18 16 11:30 PM. Edited 1 time.

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