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Dec 27 08 2:03 PM

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Please can anyone tell me why this match is not recorded as Denmark v Brazil but as Staevnet v Brazil?

Wikipedia says: Stævnet (Danish:the meeting) or Copenhagen XI were a Danish association football representative team which had its prime before 1970.

According to the line ups the Staevnet team that played Brazil also included players from other cities in all parts of Denmark: Aarhus and Vejle even does not belong to the Copenhagen agglomeration. As a matter of fact this Staevnet team was the full Denmark national team.

Stævnet 3-4 Brazil - May 10, 1960
Stævnet:[16] Henry From (Aarhus GF), Poul Andersen (Skovshoved IF), Hans Christian Nielsen (Aarhus GF), Poul Jensen (Vejle B) - Bent Hansen (B 1903), Flemming Nielsen (AB) - Poul Pedersen (AIA Aarhus), John Danielsen (B 1909), Harald Nielsen (Frederikshavn fl), Henning Enoksen (Vejle B), Jørn Sørensen (KB)
Brazil: Gilmar, Djalma Santos, Bellini, Vítor, Nílton Santos, Zito, Chinesinho, Garrincha, Quarentinha, Pelé, Pepe.
Scorers: 1-0 H. Nielsen, 1-1 Quarentinha, 2-1 H. Nielsen, 2-2 Pepe, 2-3 Quarentinha, 2-4 Chinesinho, 3-4 Enoksen.
Attendance: 52,000
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#1 [url]

Dec 28 08 2:03 PM

Well i can't tell you why this game is called this.

But i could possibly be just a Danish League select since all the players are from Danish Clubs. Maybe Staevnet means something else than 'the meeting'.

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#3 [url]

Dec 29 08 6:09 PM

'Staevnet' means in Danish 'series'. In 1960 there were hardly or no football emigrants at all from Danemark and neither profi players. The "A" team of this country was an amateur one then.

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#4 [url]

Dec 29 08 6:24 PM

If Staevnet means the "meeting" or "series" or whatever, I think Danish FA have made a mess of its statistics concerning A national team. Just like the problems with Denmark League XI.

The match v Brazil were played with the very same players Denmark used to field in other international matches. Besides, Staevnet used to be more a (greater) Copenhagen XI, but cities as Aarhus and Vejle certainly does not belong to greater Copenhagen (just like cities as Poznan or Katowiece certainly are not a part og Greater Warsaw.

I think this match must be regarded as official A international. According my own personal opionion matches should be counted such if:

•Both FA’s regard a match as such.
•Both teams played a friendly (tournament) match with its full strength national A-team. At least one of both countries regards the match official (or announced (to FIFA) this match to be A international).
•All World Cup and European Nations Cup matches.
•All post 1956 Olympic Games matches regarded official A by both national FA’s.

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#5 [url]

Dec 30 08 6:49 PM

Fast Midfielder wrote:
If Staevnet means the "meeting" or "series" or whatever

I mentioned it just so by the way, it doesn't belong to the matter very much.
Fast Midfielder wrote:
Danish FA have made a mess of its statistics concerning A national team.

Full agreement from my side. They are unfortunately not the only ones.

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#6 [url]

Apr 8 12 7:41 PM

Re: Denmark 3-4 Brazil, 10 May 1960

Fast Midfielder wrote:
Please can anyone tell me why this match is not recorded as Denmark v Brazil but as Staevnet v Brazil?

The answer can probably be find in this topic http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161 as it must be one of the many examples of wrong labelling.

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#8 [url]

Apr 9 12 9:17 AM

It's without doubt the "A" team.

But are we sure that the Danish FA is aware of that match? Maybe they have lost the protocol about that friendly: it's even possible.

I'm going to contact the Danish FA about this matter. If I get any information I will post here.

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#9 [url]

Apr 9 12 5:51 PM

I totally agree with you Luca and for me the status of the Danish team isn't even debatable as you can see on earlier posts on this topic. To me it is just a matter of labelling as discussed here why Danish FA does not regard this match as official A-international match. http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161

There are also other topics about debatable labelling, but here there is any room to discuss the team is A-national team or something else.
http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2144
http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2156
http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=1720
http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=955
http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2147

However, I am very intersted in what Danish FA will answer you. Why they labelled the match as Staevnet (Copenhagen XI) if the players are from all over the country?

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#10 [url]

Apr 9 12 9:33 PM

Perhaps the DBU didn't arrange the team for this match,

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#12 [url]

Apr 12 12 7:07 PM

I have contacted DBU about this issue and they have been very polite and exhaustive. Here is their answer:

Dear Luca,

The match, Denmark 3-4 Brazil, played May 10, 1960 is, indeed, considered
an unofficial match by DBU.

The reason being that the arrangers of the match were Stævnet and
Alliancen, two representative teams of several clubs, in-and outside of
Copenhagen.

So, at the outset, the team playing Brazil would have been comprised of
the clubs represented by Stævnet and Alliancen.

However, in 1960, the Danish A-team had qualified for the Olympic Games
and, consequently, DBU proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that it would
field its A-team for the match against the reigning World Champions.

Stævnet and Alliancen agreed, luckily, as the match was a fantastic
display for the 52,000 spectators.

Contemporary press reports were not hoping for much before the game, as
the Brazilians, prior to coming to Copenhagen, had beaten the Swedish
clubside, Malmö FF, by 7-1 - and then the Danish amateur A-team (not until
1971 were professional players allowed in the international team, and the
professional league was not introduced until 197 gave Brazil a fair
fight. :-)

The Danish A-team won Olympic Silver in 1960, btw.

I hope to have provided you with the background for why this was never
considered an official A-international by DBU.

Warmest regards

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#13 [url]

Apr 12 12 8:33 PM

Luca wrote:
The reason being that the arrangers of the match were Stævnet and Alliancen, two representative teams of several clubs, in-and outside of Copenhagen.

Great job Luca! According to this part of the answer I would say not an official A-international match because Stævnet and Alliancen arranged that match.

Luca wrote:
However, in 1960, the Danish A-team had qualified for the Olympic Games and, consequently, DBU proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that it would field its A-team for the match against the reigning World Champions.

However, according to this part I would say this match is official A-international because DBU proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that it would field its A-team. This implies DBU had been involved in this match, which actually is a Denmark - Brazil match, as well.

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TheRoonBa

Posts: 5,442 Site Admin

#14 [url]

Apr 13 12 12:03 AM

It seems like they are contradicting themselves.

They not only proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that Denmark would field its A-team, but Stævnet and Alliancen agreed, and Denmark played with its A-team.

Luca wrote:

Stævnet and Alliancen agreed, luckily, as the match was a fantastic
display for the 52,000 spectators.



So, what the DBU have actually done is made me wonder why it was not official, as the DBU have said above explicitly that the A-team was used.

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#15 [url]

Apr 13 12 8:28 AM

The Denmark 0-2 Argentina match played on 13-06-1966 is not listed as Denmark A-national team match but neither as Stævnet (Copenhagen XI) - Argentina match http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A6vnet Has anyone an idea why? Is this a similar case as the match against Brazil?

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#16 [url]

Apr 13 12 9:20 AM

Fast Midfielder wrote:

I would say this match is official A-international because DBU proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that it would field its A-team. This implies DBU had been involved in this match, which actually is a Denmark - Brazil match, as well.


mcruic wrote:
So, what the DBU have actually done is made me wonder why it was not official, as the DBU have said above explicitly that the A-team was used.


The answer is very simple: DBU limited itself to sending its best players for the match against Brazil, but Stævnet and Alliancen arranged this event, so DBU can't recognize this friendly.

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#18 [url]

Apr 13 12 2:06 PM

nfm24 wrote:
Perhaps the team didn't wear the Danish national shirts etc.

Not wearing national shirts cannot be the reason not to count a match official. I remember a 1978 World Cup final match France - Hungary when the French did not play in the NT shirt but in a local Argentine club shirt.

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#19 [url]

Apr 13 12 5:07 PM

Not wearing national shirts cannot be the reason not to count a match official


I know, but I mean that the team did not play AS the national team, it still played as a Staevnet/Alliancen team, even though the players used were exactly those from the national team. One indication of this would be if the team did not wear the national shirts (but I agree, this fact alone is not conclusive).

If we take an analogous example: suppose just before the Euro 2012 there was some kind of friendly, English Premier League Combined XI vs Brazil. Then the EPL would organize the match. But the FA then asks the EPL, can we use this match as practice for the England national team? And the EPL agrees, so the English national players play vs Brazil. But they don't play as the national team, then play as EPL XI.
[Note: I use England as the example because virtually all English NT players are home-based in the Premier League. The same example with Eredivisie wouldn't work of course!]

Fast Midfielder wrote:
The Denmark 0-2 Argentina match played on 13-06-1966 is not listed as Denmark A-national team match but neither as Stævnet (Copenhagen XI) - Argentina match http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A6vnet Has anyone an idea why? Is this a similar case as the match against Brazil?


I have the date as 17-6-66. FIFA news listed this match as "Copenhagen Select XI vs Argentina"

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#20 [url]

Apr 13 12 6:31 PM

nfm24 wrote:If we take an analogous example: suppose just before the Euro 2012 there was some kind of friendly, English Premier League Combined XI vs Brazil. Then the EPL would organize the match. But the FA then asks the EPL, can we use this match as practice for the England national team? And the EPL agrees, so the English national players play vs Brazil. But they don't play as the national team, then play as EPL XI.

This makes sense, but to me is crucial the FA is getting involved and wants its full NT to play. As you can see on my replies to Luca. However, there is more. Relabelling. The first ten matches Austria - Hungary (1902-1908 ) were initially played as Vienna - Budapest and became official A-international matches afterwards.

Luca wrote:The reason being that the arrangers of the match were Stævnet and Alliancen, two representative teams of several clubs, in-and outside of Copenhagen.

Great job Luca! According to this part of the answer I would say not an official A-international match because Stævnet and Alliancen arranged that match.

Luca wrote:However, in 1960, the Danish A-team had qualified for the Olympic Games and, consequently, DBU proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that it would field its A-team for the match against the reigning World Champions.

However, according to this part I would say this match is official A-international because DBU proposed to Stævnet and Alliancen that it would field its A-team. This implies DBU had been involved in this match, which actually is a Denmark - Brazil match, as well.

Last Edited By: Fast Midfielder Dec 5 13 8:35 PM. Edited 1 time.

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