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TheRoonBa

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#181 [url]

Jun 23 11 10:28 PM

FIFA does not have its own database of results - they bought their database from a third party. They also bought their women's database from Infostrada Sports in the Netherlands in 2002 (and it also has many omissions and errors). I've alerted them to this, but they do not seem interested in correcting mistakes. I have over 500 women's matches that are not on their list, and they also have some country v club matches listed as full internationals.

The point is, we cannot (and should not) really use FIFA's online database as a reference point. The fact is - they have many matches mentioned in their own FIFA news publications that they do not have in their own database.

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#182 [url]

Jun 30 11 6:12 PM

mcruic wrote:
FIFA does not have its own database of results - they bought their database from a third party. They also bought their women's database from Infostrada Sports in the Netherlands in 2002 (and it also has many omissions and errors). I've alerted them to this, but they do not seem interested in correcting mistakes. I have over 500 women's matches that are not on their list, and they also have some country v club matches listed as full internationals.

I stopped sending corrections to FIFA. In the 2002-2009 era they certainly made adaptions after I informed them about some errors on their site, so that's not the problem. Even not that they did not thank me for my efforts. This attitude says quite a lot the values people have within that organization, but that's not my problem. Nevertheless, there is only one thing that really upset me: they never replied when I asked them a question.

As FIFA website is a mess this cannot be regarded as a good reference point. I prefer IFFHS site above FIFA's site even though this one won't be compete either. We can agree with IFFHS or not, but at least they explain why matches are included or not, something FIFA does not at all. The only thing I regret is IFFHS are building up the A-international section very slowly. Now they are explaining the 1911-1920 era.

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TheRoonBa

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#183 [url]

Jun 30 11 7:48 PM

Who works for IFFHS and do they do this job full-time or are they doing other jobs and working on IFFHS part-time and for free? This would explain why they were taking so long. If this is their full-time job, then I have no idea why it would take so long. As I've mentioned before - there are many people on this forum who would happily do this job.

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#184 [url]

Jun 30 11 8:12 PM

mcruic wrote:
Who works for IFFHS and do they do this job full-time or are they doing other jobs and working on IFFHS part-time and for free?

That's a good question indeed. And IFFHS is documentating more. Also club football worldwide, so they have quite a wide range.

mcruic wrote:
As I've mentioned before - there are many people on this forum who would happily do this job.

Some people on this forum are very well documentated, so they can be quite a support for the A-international matches section. I presume most uf us have the same objectives as IFFHS, so theoretically we must find a way which will be a win-win situation for both this forum members and IFFHS. If someone has good contacts with IFFHS he might approach them for this.

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#185 [url]

Jun 30 11 8:45 PM

mcruic wrote:
Who works for IFFHS and do they do this job full-time or are they doing other jobs and working on IFFHS part-time and for free?


I just know that the former Uruguayan member, Eduardo Gutiérrez Cortinas, was also a famous musician.

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#186 [url]

Jul 1 11 5:31 AM

This would explain why they were taking so long.


Either that, or the average age of IFFHS members is something like 93 years. Joking of course, but if you browse the photos at http://www.iffhs.de/?b3120fe3016e23617ff3c17f7370eff3702bb1c2bb19 there aren't any faces that look 40 or younger. And elderly people do their work slowly.

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#187 [url]

Jul 17 11 7:42 AM

It does not matter if those people are old. So far IFFHS site explains at least why matches are included or not. We can agree with them or not, nevertheless this site is a valuable one for us in order to decide which matches to count or not. However, on this forum there is another interesting topic which is very uselful for this topic because Olympic football probably is one of the most controversial matters to deal with http://roonba.20.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2007

BTW: following a Wikipedia site about Héctor Chumpitaz. http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/chumpitaz-intl.html It gives this note: Note: the match against Uruguay (18/ 4/70, won 4-2) is not anymore considered a full international since Peru were represented by Universitario (Lima) and played in their shirts. Analysing the Peru line ups we can see Peruvian players are from different clubs, so comments on following site are more reliable. http://www.cantab.net/users/nfm24/football/1970sa.html says . The match is currently regarded as unofficial by both Peru and Uruguay (although at the time it was considered official). Peru played in the uniform of the club Universitario de Deportes. It cannot be a reason a match does not count because a NT wear a shirt of a club team. France did the same at the 1978 World Cup tournament against Hungary This match is official for France, Hungary and FIFA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Xjm9L0osg

Reading the Peruvian line up we can notice all its players were from different clubs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9ctor_Chumpitaz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Sotil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eloy_Campos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Rubi%C3%B1os
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_de_la_Torre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Fuentes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram%C3%B3n_Mifflin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Challe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Bayl%C3%B3n
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Pablo_Le%C3%B3n
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Gallardo

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#188 [url]

Jul 17 11 8:51 AM

Very good remark: you are right!

Although Peru wore the Universitario shirt, all the Peruvian players at that time were from different clubs, so I don't know why Peru, Uruguay and FIFA don't recognize this match...
I remember that over the World Cup 1934 third-place match, Austria was obliged to wear the Napoli blue shirt, however that match is 100% official...

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#189 [url]

Sep 28 11 6:47 PM

CONMEBOL has recently created a new official competition: the Superclásico de las Américas. The only teams which can compete for this tournament are Brazil and Argentina, but there is a restriction: both Brazil and Argentina must field only the local players, and not the ones who play abroad. The first leg, Argentina-Brazil 0-0, was played on September 14, while the second leg will be played in Belém on September 28. Which is the status of these matches?

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#190 [url]

Sep 29 11 5:13 PM

According FIFA's site it's a FIFA A-international but match status on FIFA site can change as we have seen before. However if CONMEBOL as organizers of this competition made the restrictions Brazil and Argentina can only field home based matches for the Superclásico de las Américas this is a restrictive competition just like the Olympic Games (for most of the countries until 1988, afterwards for all countries). In that case these Brazil - Argentina matches cannot be regarded as A-internationals.

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#191 [url]

Sep 29 11 10:41 PM

Personally I would consider Uruguay vs Argentina to be the "superclasico". Obviously for historical reasons, but even today Uruguay is still the champion of the continent, and the best placed in the 2010 World Cup, so it is very arrogant of Argentina and Brazil to consider their match as the superclasico.

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#192 [url]

Sep 30 11 4:20 PM

Do they consider or CONMEBOL? Back to the topic, it is important to know who put the restrictions both countries could only field home based players, because as CONMEBOL decided this is a restriction not made by the two countries that played the match just as Olympic Games matches are.

I agree if both Argentina and Brazil call it the Superclásico this is arrogant. However if CONMEBOL decided to name this competition like that it is a lack of respect to Uruguay. It is well known Uruguay and Argentina have won far the most Copa América's not to mention Uruguay also won 2 World Cups. Besides Uruguay and Argentina met on far more occasions than Argentina and Brazil did. So if there is one so called Superclásico in South America it is Uruguay v Argentina to me.

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#193 [url]

Sep 30 11 8:36 PM

As always, South American rules are not very clear, but it seems that indeed CONMEBOL organizes the competition, as I have verified on their official website: "oficializada en junio de este año por la Conmebol", but actually I don't know if CONMEBOL puts the restriction or not. Anyway the rule about the restriction is published on their website: "Las principales figuras del futbol que jueguen en la liga local de ambos países, formarán parte de sus respectivas selecciones. También podrán ser convocados jugadores argentinos que militen en Brasil y jugadores brasileños que lo hagan en Argentina."

I have discovered another curious issue: also in Africa, CAF organizes an official competition called African Championship of Nations, where only the local players can represent the National teams. Two editions of this tournament have been played so far: in 2009 and in 2011. But the matches of the African Championship of Nations are not on FIFA's list...

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TheRoonBa

Posts: 5,526 Site Admin

#194 [url]

Sep 30 11 11:06 PM

Luca wrote:
As always, South American rules are not very clear, but it seems that indeed CONMEBOL organizes the competition, as I have verified on their official website: "oficializada en junio de este año por la Conmebol", but actually I don't know if CONMEBOL puts the restriction or not. Anyway the rule about the restriction is published on their website: "Las principales figuras del futbol que jueguen en la liga local de ambos países, formarán parte de sus respectivas selecciones. También podrán ser convocados jugadores argentinos que militen en Brasil y jugadores brasileños que lo hagan en Argentina."

I have discovered another curious issue: also in Africa, CAF organizes an official competition called African Championship of Nations, where only the local players can represent the National teams. Two editions of this tournament have been played so far: in 2009 and in 2011. But the matches of the African Championship of Nations are not on FIFA's list...


Yes, it's not clear with the CHAN (African) competition. For the smaller nations (like Djibouti/Somalia), their local-=based team is exactly the same as their national team. But for the big nations (Cameroon, Côte d'Ivoire), it is a completely different team without all their European stars.

But, it can also be said that the CECAFA and COSAFA cups are also mostly for local-based players, BUT these matches are counted as full internationals. The Amílcar Cabral Cup (North-West Africa) was also mostly for local-based players. Also, the Indian Ocean Island Games is basically for local-based players, as not many players from these islands play outside Africa.

But the difference is - there is no restriction in place. IF these countries choose to play European-based players, there would be no problem. However, in the CHAN tournaments of 2009 and 2011, it was forbidden to play any players from outside Africa.

About Argentina v Brazil - I am not sure if CONMEBOL put the restrictions on the players - if so, then the matches should not count. However, Argentina has played a few friendly matches in the last few years with a local-based "B" team, as they chose to play on non-FIFA dates.

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#195 [url]

Oct 8 11 8:59 AM

The Italian magazine Guerin Sportivo n. 6, 1983 publishes an interesting list with all the international matches of the year 1982 for Europe, Africa and South America, with the dates and the results (unfortunately there are no line-ups). Also the Guerin Sportivo n. 11, 1984 publishes the same list for the year 1983. If you are interested in or if you have any questions, please let me know.

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#197 [url]

Oct 9 11 7:08 PM

Luca wrote:
The Italian magazine Guerin Sportivo n. 6, 1983 publishes an interesting list with all the international matches of the year 1982 for Europe, Africa and South America, with the dates and the results (unfortunately there are no line-ups). Also the Guerin Sportivo n. 11, 1984 publishes the same list for the year 1983. If you are interested in or if you have any questions, please let me know.

When the 1988 international matches were published in Guerin Spoertivo I found in both European and African section the match Scotland 6-1 Zimbabwe played on 27-10-1988 .

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#198 [url]

Oct 10 11 10:16 AM

In addition, in "Almanacco Illustrato del Calcio 1990-Edizioni Panini" I've found, in the International Matches Section:
27 October 1988, Glasgow, Scotland- Zimbabwe 6-1.
I can't understand why the above Match is not listed in RSSSF (both Scotland and Zimbabwe records).
Did Scots play with their "B" Team or "Scottish League XI"? I don't think so.
Also, it's very strange, in my opinion, that an African squad flew to Europe to play only one game: but unfortunately I didn't find other european matches of Zimbabwe in that period.
Who knows? Who has more information on this subject?

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#199 [url]

Oct 10 11 6:53 PM

Giampaolo wrote:
In addition, in "Almanacco Illustrato del Calcio 1990-Edizioni Panini" I've found, in the International Matches Section:
27 October 1988, Glasgow, Scotland- Zimbabwe 6-1.
I can't understand why the above Match is not listed in RSSSF (both Scotland and Zimbabwe records).
Did Scots play with their "B" Team or "Scottish League XI"? I don't think so.
Also, it's very strange, in my opinion, that an African squad flew to Europe to play only one game: but unfortunately I didn't find other european matches of Zimbabwe in that period.
Who knows? Who has more information on this subject?


I don't think it was an "A" match for Scotland because the day before (26-10-198 there were the European Cups, so it's improbable that the best Scottish players represented the National team on 27-10-1988. The Almanacco Illustrato del Calcio used to publish also the unofficial matches. For example, the edition 1981 reported the Olympic matches (Norway-West Germany 1-0 played in Baunatal on 14-11-1979; France-Spain 1-1 played in Montpellier on 05-12-1979; Argentina-Chile 1-0 played in Bogotá on 27-01-1980 and so on...) and the edition 1988 did the same...

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#200 [url]

Oct 10 11 7:26 PM

No mention of this match in The Guardian, and the Glasgow Herald on Google News is unfortunately missing all the second half of 1988 :/

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